The emotional side of Prop 8Follow

And that a heterosexual's physical property is worth more than a homosexual's property, apparently.

Maybe Mellissa Etheredge is right, all us ****** should just stop paying taxes all together.

"Leave the Middle East alone! Leave it alone!!"

Crocker '36

I'm all for voting for ****** and stuff but Crocker is the an annoying hack job.

Not entirely. Not when the proposition is passed and you voted against it. You have a say in whether or not you agree with it, you do not have a say in whether or not you are paying for it once all is said and done.

As it stands, I think we should have a vote to banish the tax on all homosexuals for the marriage benefits that heterosexuals receive. Since gbaji thinks he should be able to choose not to pay for them, then they should be able to choose not to pay for us.

You know, I was going to explain, in simpler terms, exactly what I was saying. Then I changed my mind. This is pointless, because as soon as you get to a point where you either are tired of the conversation or you don't have an argument left, you'll laugh, throw your hands up and say, "Oh ho ho! Don't get mad at me Belkira! I'm on your side!" Like this whole thing is just a big joke and you get a kick out of pushing buttons.

Well, this is a sensitive issue for me, and for many others. Being drawn down these little side roads and semantic arguments does nothing.

Gbaji is wrong. If for no other reason because he's denying a specific group of people the right (Yep, that's right, I called it a right, get over it.) to get married to the person they love. I don't really care if the majority of Americans, or even the majority of the population of the planet earth think that homosexuals are immoral and shouldn't be allowed to marry.

They're wrong.

Y'all know how much I love Ayn Rand..."Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities."

And I agree...it's a right.

Nexa

Gbaji, seriously, f'uck off. Not every f'ucking thread on the subject needs to be a big long debate with you as the f'ucking center of attention. I am reasonably certain Nexa was trying to make the point that since there are other threads for that particular purpose, you don't need to bring your excessively verbose ego-******* to this one as well.

Bullsh*t Bel, you just refuse to look at Gbaji's arguements objectively, you get all emotional and start accusing him of bigotry and Law breaking instead of countering his arguements like say Joph does.

And You know what I FUcking well do agree with you, but I also think you talk alot of sh*t on this issue.

People are not Bigiots just because they don't fUcking well have the same ideaology aas you, they aren't homophobic just because they don't agree with you.
GET IT! the world is NOT BLACK AND WHITE!

While I may not be as knowledgeable as, say Joph, on the subject, I do counter his arguments instead of rushing off and calling him names. You're more of an idiot than you seem if you think otherwise. Unfortunately, he dodges questions and comes up with things out of thin air to respond with. Ask him for a cite and he ignores you.

He is a bigot, and not because he doesn't agree with me, not because he doesn't have the same idiology as me. I don't know who the **** you think you are, pretending you konw me so well, but I don't usually throw words like "homophobe" and "bigot" around lightly, because I know good and damn well that it does nothing to help the cause.

You want to preach to me about the world "not being black and white?" Like you're some learned scholar and I know nothing about the world? **** you there, too, then. I am fully capable of seeing both sides of an argument and I constantly do so. I don't give two ***** about gbaji's personal feelings on the issue, not because they are counter to mine, but because I recognize he's fully entitled to them. I have not heard one good, legal reason for disallowing same-sex marriage. That's my problem with him. He's given a bunch of reasons that make no logical sense and that are shot down time and time again, yet he parrots them and pretends that we're the stupid ones that can't seem to get it.

Dos cervezas por favor.

No. It's not. A liberty is something you have regardless of the presence of a state. It's not given to you, but might be taken away. A right is a liberty that the state promises not to take away.

A right can *never* provide you with something. It's only ever a promise not to take something away. The issue at question is a set of benefits. There are zero rights involved. You do *not* have a right to be on someone else's medical coverage. You do *not* have a right to receive someone else's social security or pension benefits. You do *not* have a right to average your's and someone else's income when calculating taxes.

Those are all benefits granted by the state. They are things given to you. They are not rights. You don't have them by default, they are given to you by someone else. A right *never* costs someone else something to give to you. Ever.

Property possession is a liberty. You can have things regardless of the presence of or existence of a state. It may be taken away by a state though. Taxes are therefore always an imposition on one's liberty (we have a right not to have our property taken without due-process, but that's as far as the promise we have). Thus, taking my property away in the form of taxes in order to provide benefits to someone else is *absolutely* my decision. It's a collective one, of course, since the government can take my property by due process, but you're trying to argue that it's somehow inherently wrong for me to oppose that due process (ie: vote on a gay marriage proposition) or express my opinion about it. Sorry. I just plain disagree. And guess what? I have a "right" to that as well...


That's what's wrong with most of you people. You're core definitions of some very basic concepts are just plain wrong, so your assumptions about most political issues end out being wrong as well. The misconceptions about such basic concepts is staggering to me sometimes.

Edited, Nov 11th 2008 5:05pm by gbaji