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Hey, in Red Alert 3, they killed Einstien and Japan is now a super power trying to take over the world!
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
manicshock wrote:
Speak for the Israelies. They were kicked out of their home repeatedly. You don't mind them getting kicked out again though right? I mean we're continuing a war here! Horrible Americans. They aren't a fake state. They've always been a country long before American was discovered. Just been oppressed.
Complete rubbish.
Israel was never, ever, a "State" before it was created in 1948. Nor a "country". It was a colony, it was part of empires, it was a collection of tribes, but it was never a "State". And throughout most of History, the people that made up Israel and Palestine were brown looking Muslims and Jews, livnig relatively peacefully side-by-side. Most of the people in Israel today come from Russia, Europe, Arab/Persian countries or America.
The Jews have suffered horribly during most of History, probably more than most people. There is no denying that. And Israel was created with the best intentions, and the worst conscience, possible. But the Israel/Palstine problem is far, far more complicated and ambiguous than the simplistic and ignorant rewriting of history you're doing.
Edited, Nov 9th 2008 5:05pm by RedPhoenixxx
Japan is a super power trying to take over the world in this reality, too.
They just opted for a less bloodier means: technological and cultural dominance.
I sell Japanese made servers at work, and come home and spend four to six hours a day on a Japanese made video game while my fiance plays Japanese imported video games and does research on Japanese cultural dominence in the US and other parts of the world. Then during our downtime we watch subtitled Japanese cartoons. Our room mate speaks fluent Japanese, and half our friends are in Japan for JET trying to do some cultural immersion. I drive a Japanese car. I eat Japanese food and love Japanese candy.
If you've ever played Civilization, then you know there's more than one way to take over the world. After WWII, Japan opted for a less violent route.
They just opted for a less bloodier means: technological and cultural dominance.
I sell Japanese made servers at work, and come home and spend four to six hours a day on a Japanese made video game while my fiance plays Japanese imported video games and does research on Japanese cultural dominence in the US and other parts of the world. Then during our downtime we watch subtitled Japanese cartoons. Our room mate speaks fluent Japanese, and half our friends are in Japan for JET trying to do some cultural immersion. I drive a Japanese car. I eat Japanese food and love Japanese candy.
If you've ever played Civilization, then you know there's more than one way to take over the world. After WWII, Japan opted for a less violent route.
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
I sell Japanese made servers at work, and come home and spend four to six hours a day on a Japanese made video game while my fiance plays Japanese imported video games and does research on Japanese cultural dominence in the US and other parts of the world. Then during our downtime we watch subtitled Japanese cartoons. Our room mate speaks fluent Japanese, and half our friends are in Japan for JET trying to do some cultural immersion. I drive a Japanese car. I eat Japanese food and love Japanese candy.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
I drive a Japanese car.
That contain parts made in the US :)
Just for clarification:
I work for a factory that makes parts for:
Mitsubishi
Toyota
Honda
Hyundai
Subaru
Nissan
These parts are shipped to a German owned company that further assembles the parts for these Japanese vehicles.
It's pretty much the same method for all makes and models.
Edited, Nov 9th 2008 5:39pm by TirithRR
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
On an unrelated note...I rated down amortonight and he is now unrated!!! Cheers.
Damien
Japan was defeated the ruling govt. just refused to believe it.
The atomic bombs were dropped to save the many thousands of lives, Allied and Japanese,that would have died in an invasion.
The utter destruction of the bombs are what got Hirohito to go against his army commanders and issue the surrender. Avoiding an attempt by some to kill him before he could make the announcement.
Dont care about the rest of the post.
Japan was defeated the ruling govt. just refused to believe it.
The atomic bombs were dropped to save the many thousands of lives, Allied and Japanese,that would have died in an invasion.
The utter destruction of the bombs are what got Hirohito to go against his army commanders and issue the surrender. Avoiding an attempt by some to kill him before he could make the announcement.
Dont care about the rest of the post.
Jonwin wrote:
Damien
Japan was defeated the ruling govt. just refused to believe it.
The atomic bombs were dropped to save the many thousands of lives, Allied and Japanese,that would have died in an invasion.
The utter destruction of the bombs are what got Hirohito to go against his army commanders and issue the surrender. Avoiding an attempt by some to kill him before he could make the announcement.
Japan was defeated the ruling govt. just refused to believe it.
The atomic bombs were dropped to save the many thousands of lives, Allied and Japanese,that would have died in an invasion.
The utter destruction of the bombs are what got Hirohito to go against his army commanders and issue the surrender. Avoiding an attempt by some to kill him before he could make the announcement.
How can we be sure?
I'm not arguing that dropping the bombs was necessarily wrong. It might have saved more lives than were killed by the A-bombs, but how can you be so sure? It's a nice story that every single Japanese individual would've fought till the death for his homeland, but how can we know? Isn't this a result of the Japanese/American propaganda of the time?
And if they were really so very determined not to sign a peace treaty until they were all dead, why give up after a couple of bombs? Surely they could've built underground bunkers and waited for an American invasion from there. And why drop 2 bombs? Wouldn't one have been enough?
I'm not sure what I think about dropping the A-bomb. But this absolute certainty that it was the only way possible to avoid more than 220,000 people being killed is slightly irritating. There were many other factors in dropping the bomb, like Damien says. I don't agree with his analogies of 9/11 and the A-bombs, but you can't deny that the people who decided to drop the bomb had some ulterior motives: a show of force, of technology, etc...
I've read a bit on this issue, and historians are quite divided on whether it was necessary. I don't get why so many of you are so absolutely certain it was the only thing to be done.
I might not be remembering correctly, but didn't the second bomb dropped on Nagasaki happen a few days after Hiroshima? Even after the first bomb dropped on Hiroshima the Japanese didn't surrender, it took the second one on Nagasaki to convince them, possibly because they didn't know the US didn't actually have anymore then that.
Edited, Nov 10th 2008 9:52am by Siesen
Edited, Nov 10th 2008 9:52am by Siesen
Siesen wrote:
I might not be remembering correctly, but didn't the second bomb dropped on Nagasaki happen a few days after Hiroshima? Even after the first bomb dropped on Hiroshima the Japanese didn't surrender, it took the second one on Nagasaki to convince them, possibly because they didn't know the US didn't actually have anymore then that.
And the fact of the matter is that the majority of the military establishment at the time found the use of the bombs to be unnecessary. The Japanese were ready to surrender. The Emperor had already made overtures asking for peace, acknowledged by Truman himself at least 19 days before Hiroshima. The notion of the bombings being carried out to save lives was something that didn't come up until well after the fact, and with as many times as Truman contradicted himself on his own motivations, the real reason those bombs were dropped went with the President to his grave.
Siesen wrote:
I might not be remembering correctly, but didn't the second bomb dropped on Nagasaki happen a few days after Hiroshima? Even after the first bomb dropped on Hiroshima the Japanese didn't surrender, it took the second one on Nagasaki to convince them, possibly because they didn't know the US didn't actually have anymore then that.
Nagazaki was 3 days after Hiroshima. And the Japanese obviously knew that America had more A-bombs. Even if they weren't 100% sure that they had them ready for the drop, they knew they had the potential to produce more, and to drop them eventually. I can't see how the second bomb made much difference either way, except as a psychological impact.
Again, I'm not saying it wasn't the least worst possible solution at the time. We have the benfit of hindsight, which is a great thing, and which people didn't have back then. It might well be that people, at the time, genuinely thought it was the only way to end the war quickly. I'm not questioning their decision at the time, only the absolute certainty that some people display today that it "saved more lives than it cost". Because when you read the archives, it seems as though Japan was pretty much ready to surrender. It was certainly ready to negotiate peace, though it might not have been unconditional as it was after the two bombs. And it doesn't seem to me as though the local population had much more of an appetite for fighting. To me, the notion that Japanese kids, women, and elderly would've fought to the death until every single one of them was dead, seems slightly far-fetched, and is more of a result of the propoganda at the time than anything else.
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