Here's One For Ya, TotemFollow

I know you love the "OMG Someone wrote THIS!!" threads. Well, Charles Krauthammer has just admitted that McCain's fumbled it and Obama's most likely going to be president.

Money quote:Obviously not a ringing endorsement of Obama (not that I agree with Chuck) but rather an admission of reality.

I never thought I'd see Krauthammer throw in the towel, but there you have it.

Hmm, interesting article, Jo. The description of Obama is spot on though. It amazes me that nobody on the Dem side seems concerned or even bothered by his close association with Ayers. It's as if you could hang out with Timothy McVeigh, go out for beers and such, but no one bats an eye. Community organization and subsequent good deeds don't erase a life of domestic terrorism in my book. I imagine you could find plenty of "nice" things McVeigh did for others when he wasn't blowing up OKC federal buildings in his spare time as well.

I guess you get a pass on poor judgement if you use it early enough.

Ultimately, more than any other thing, which includes his association and apparent fascination with individuals connected with the Communist Party, black liberation theology, and shady real estate dealings, is this blithe attitude towards Ayers' past.

Yet none of you Obama supporters appearr to be the least bit bothered by this. Care to explain?

Totem

Have anything other than guilt by association for me to explain?

Or, for that matter, some sort of evidence of a "close association"? I mean Kurtz wrote about his "findings" in those oh-so-damning UIC records a week or two ago. Did you read it? He sounded like Geraldo Rivera at Al Capone's vault as Kurtz tried to make a story out of three or four unexciting sentences and justify the buzz he created. Embarassing for him but, when you try to make much out of nothing, you still wind up with a lot of nothing.

So Jophiel, to be clear, you are not convinced Obama has had any dealings with William Ayers, publically, personally, or political, certainly nothing which tells you he is wrong for having made his acquantance. Is that what you are saying? And you are saying I am making spurious accusations against Obama for having nothing more than a passing association with Ayers?

Is this correct?

Totem

No associations which worry me, no. I guess I missed the day in health class when they taught that 1960's radicalism was a communicable disease from casual contact.I'm asking what your basis is for declaring it to be a "close association". Maybe you have solid evidence. Maybe we have widely different definitions of "close association". Your future posts will help me solve this riddle.

So, technically, they've killed terrorists.

Ayers is an American hero!!!

Nice pithy sidestep of what is a very simple question of judgement, Jophiel. I submit to you that regardless of the closeness of a friendship or casual contact between two people interested in the same political goals, even having a passing connection with a man who dedicated his younger years to the death of policemen and soldiers is beyond the pale-- especially considering Ayers only regret about his actions and beliefs is that he didn't kill enough people while doing what he did.

Is that clear enough to you about the desire and scale of Ayers' stated goals?

Let me put it this way. We differ in world view and certainly political outlook. I can and do respect you regardless of these differences. However, were I to find out you were engaged in or associated with a domestic terrorism of either the Ayers or McVeigh variety, I wouldn't **** on you if you were on fire.

There is acceptable methods of civil disagreement and protest, but killing, bombing, and threatening policemen and soldiers, and civic and government buildings is absolutely not one of them. There is no excuse for having anything to do with William Ayers. Period.

Totem

Edit for clarity: Ayers did not kill anybody beyond his involvement as the leader of a domestic terrorism organization, through which the use of explosives killed his own people, but the intent to kill and subsequent death of radicals in the Weathermen is in my eyes the same a if he had detonated the device himself. Explaining away his actions as political belief put into motion is a smoke screen for excusing his own behavior.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2008 6:56pm by Totem

Whom did he kill? What building did they ever bomb (and no, I don't condone destruction of property) without giving adequate warning in time for full evacuation of same?

He never said that. His "I wish we had done more" remark was him saying that he wished they had done more, in general terms, to stop the Vietnam War.I'm not defending what he did do but you're parroting a mistaken view about what he thinks today.

And you can scoff and say "He's just saying that!!" but you're also the one taking his "We didn't do enough" quote as gospel. I wouldn't want to accuse you of cherry-picking which quotes you use.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2008 6:04pm by Jophiel

Living with Communists for 5+years.

Ah sh*t, my boss and my colleagues knows people from the Weather Underground. Eh, if you work with enough people in social justice work, you'll hit a few with radical pasts. Generally it means almost nothing and certainly not an endorsement of their past. Given Obama's age and history, it is highly likely that he never really delved into Ayer's radical past. Eh, he got caught in 1981? Obama knew him afterwards, years after the entire group disbanded? The guy served his time and hasn't done sh*t since that time. Much like the various extremists on the right, you know, you let them move on eventually. This is a reach, as usual, rather than focusing on Obama the leader, it's all this peripheral sh*t that means nothing.

He's a university professor. He does anti-poverty stuff. That's what they shared, not conspiring about radical ideology from 15 years prior.

Edited, Oct 4th 2008 1:29am by Annabella

YES. In fact, the person they know the best is married to William Ayers and the former leader, Bernadine Dohrn. Of course she is a law professor of a mainstream prestigious law school and works in juvenile justice, but you know, knowingly consorting with her must be all about what happened 30 years ago. :P



Edited, Oct 4th 2008 11:25am by Annabella