The Presidential DebateFollow

I just started watching it, I'm interested in any comments anyone might have who are watching it now.

Good line from Johnny:
"It's hard to reach across the aisle when you are so far to the left." Zing!

Totem

I find it hard to listen to him after a while too. By the time he's done talking I really don't know what he was talking about.

Did I mention that I hate the term "pork barrel" ? I hate jargon, in any form really. My co workers are terrible about using phrases that have Carlin turning in his grave.

If you looked, you'd notice that McCain never looked, not ONCE that I saw, at Obama. Obama would face him every time he talked (as long as he wasn't taking notes), but McCain NEVER looked at him. That's just comportment.

I think Obama came off wonderfully at the beginning with the financial crisis; McCain's 'riding in on a white stallion to save the day' gambit failed, and he ended up getting trumped totally.

Obama lost it a bit with the whole Iraq debate. To be fair, he stuck to his guns: "I wouldn't get us into this problem in the first place." McCain's approach was "I'm right, and we're winning. I know how to win wars." I want to mention that the US LOST Vietnam. But I'm not sure how many people will pick up on that. I also noticed McCain made a lot of comments that Obam clearly took as false, but then talked so much that Obama didn't get a chance to denounce them. I also noticed that (especially near the end) McCain ignored the moderator's summons to stop talking so Obama could respond.

By the end it came down to two messages:

Obama: I'm looking out for the future, for education and opportunity, and for the middle class. I'm against tax breaks for the companies, I'm for alternative energy, and I want to talk to foreign leaders. I won't misuse the military like the last administration, so we won't end up in another Iraq. McCain lies about me a lot.
McCain: I'm looking out for the veterans, and the security of the country. I'm all for tax breaks ($300 billion), but man do I hate earmarks ($18 billion)! My alternative energy strategy is to be for nuclear and off-shore drilling, and I won't talk to foreign leaders unless they give in to some preconditions. I'm going to keep up the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, because following my strategy we will win. Obama just doesn't understand.

The one part of foreign policy McCain looked like an idiot in was talking to foreign leaders. I could clearly see that McCain was trying to make Obama look foolish, and was failing (in my eyes at least). McCain still toes the old line of "Unless you do as we say, we won't talk with you." Obama said "No, I don't think we should treat silence as a weapon." To which McCain responded, "Oh, so you think you should just sit down without any other negotiations before?"

No, idiot. That's not what he meant at all, and you trying to twist it to make it look that way ended up with you looking foolish instead.

But otherwise on Iraq I think McCain did decently well.



I totally agree. The only part McCain went out of vague remarks was in foreign policy when mentioning old wars in Europe. That wasn't really relevant, but at least he knows what he's voted for and against... in that case.

Editted to make a better summary

Edited, Sep 26th 2008 10:58pm by LockeColeMA

Related to this, I never once saw McCain addressing the camera. On many occasions, Obama looked directly into the camera as he spoke, lending what he was saying a very honest and direct tone. McCain seemed to be shifty, stuttering and just plain old. It was a sharp contrast between them, with McCain coming off as part of the "get off my lawn" set, and Obama displaying youth, vigor, and a cool temper.

I didn't hear specifics from McCain. I heard a lot about his record, and some sappy stories about his past, but nothing of real substance. I heard specifics from Obama, about how he was going to deal with many different issues.

In the end, the Republicans will say McCain came out the winner, and the Democrats will say the same for Obama. Next week should be great fun, and I'm looking forward to the town hall debate afterwards.

Watching the lines during the discussions Iraq, McCain did well among party lines but bad low marks amongsts ind. and dems. However, Obama did well ACROSS the board on his answers to Iraq, security, AND meeting with other world leaders.

Nice Zing by Obama on the Spanish President thing, too bad maybe 10% of people watching new what he was talking about.

And John, it's Ah-ma-di-ne-jad, Palin can say it for christ's sake.

With Lipstick of course.



Edited, Sep 26th 2008 11:06pm by Omegavegeta

My panel consisted of me, my fiance, our room mate, and a random friend that came over. Lacking cable, we watched it on CNN.com.

What we decided is that McCain likes stories. He likes anecdotes to get his point across. He likes to personalize it with quotes and examples from his history (many of the now dead folks he of course knew, however, which emphasizes his age.)

Obama prefers facts to stories. The narrative is all good and well, but we need to resolve that with the reality too.

McCain: We have to cut out the wasteful spending, like earmarks.

Obama: How about we leave the $18 billion in earmarks alone and not do that $300 billion in corporate tax cuts you're proposing for your friends instead?

Huh? I was watching CNN and the reactions mainly ranged from "A tie... in McCain's best area" to "Obama won it". CNN did some flash polling and people overwhemingly thought better of Obama from it.

You can say "Yeah, that's just CNN though" but I'm questioning the idea that every news station was saying Obama lost.

Not if you're in the right-hand aisle.

It may just seem that way to McCain because he's not spent enough time in the room to have a clear understanding of where the aisle is.

I wouldn't say it was a clear win on either side, though there was some good points made by both. McCain bored me a bit with constantly repeating himself and name-dropping.

I don't think anyone realistically expected Obama to win this one, it will be interesting to see the next one though.

Edited, Sep 26th 2008 10:28pm by Kakar

The debate was not nearly as decisive as I had expected or hoped.

Honestly, I was expecting (and, I admit, hoping) Obama really to shine, and straight-up bend McCain over the podium and spank him as far as the economy goes. It didn't happen, and it should have. Obama needs to work on his game big time. This debate was so on the fence, even when the economy--McCain's admitted weak point--was the hot-button issue and even when McCain tried to skip on the whole thing. It should have been a bloodbath, and that it was not should be a wake-up call to the Obama campaign.

I love the fact that Obama conducted himself well, respecting the rules, his interlocutor (by looking at McCain and offering support on points of agreement), and trying to keep facts straight.

But I don't have faith in the general populace of this country to realize the value and rarity of Obama's conduct.

McCain did not play nice. He never made eye contact, and what is far worse, he began laying the groundwork for negative touchstone words that attach themselves to candidates and essentially ruin their chances (cf: 2004 and "flip-flopper"). Ridiculous as it is, these ad hominem attacks, these schoolyard taunts, can sway the entire outcome of the election. He kept saying Obama was inexperienced, that he was naive, and that he didn't understand. McCain kept citing all the places he'd gone around the world and the people he met (which of course doesn't give him good knowledge anymore than having a smoke with the security guard outside a museum makes a person an art expert), and that Obama had not. McCain's campaign people are not dumb, and they're moving the pieces into place.

Obama needs to come out swinging next debate.

First, he needs to set up his own key phrases, maybe that "McCain is set in his ways", or some like term that will simultaneous weaken McCain and put a positive spin on Obama's supposed "inexperience", making instead a fresh perspective, a blank slate, fertile soil for change, etc. He needs to repeat the phrase, but not too much, and being careful not to over-emphasize it.

Second, he needs to focus on exposing the weak points in McCain's knowledge. Make him stumble, preferably 2 or 3 times in a row to really drive home the point. I think Obama is probably more knowledgeable than McCain when it comes to law, theory, etc., and he really need to make that work for him.

Third, he needs to anticipate how McCain will develop his "inexperience" touchstone and figure out how to derail it.

Unfortunately, the debates are not about facts (obviously, if McCain was misrepresenting as much as Obama says he was), they're all about rhetoric and execution. They are about looking good. McCain came out looking far better than he should have, and Obama not nearly as good as he should have. As much as I like him for his conduct, Obama needs to take off his sunday gloves and start slinging some mud.