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I am happy the Republicans are blocking this effort, maybe we will learn to elect people who watch out for our best interests in the future as a result of the pain we all feel when these major corporations start failing and we don't have the same quality of life we once had.
I also agree that if we just simply give them more money and keep the same system that it will happen again, and worse.
I don't understand though how you can blame the Democrats for this. Yeah Bill Clinton didn't veto some of the legislation that lifted the regulations that would have prevented some of this, but the legislation was created and pushed by Republicans. Republicans have been pushing for deregulation for decades.
This is how the Republican economic philosophy worked out.
I think that if we don't bailout Wall Street it will create a fertile new ground for small businesses in the US, which is a good thing. There will be high unemployment and less goods and services to buy which will make people start producing these goods and services locally, creating employment opportunities and stimulating the economy.
#28REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 26 2008 at 11:39 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) the farce you speak of gbaji is the farce the REPUBLICAN president currently in power forged from his REPUBLICAN lobiests.
#29REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 26 2008 at 11:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I would like to read this article. If Obama offers a plan to start paying off the national debt, and let these banks just crumble, I am willing to pay more taxes now and deal with some hardship to have a chance at building a more solid foundation. I don't think this is the case though. Sometimes you political people seem to state a good idea and then claim that your candidate represents that idea. Not saying you are, just seems that way sometimes.
Am I the only one who pictures Shadow waving his arms and stamoing his feet while (Attepting to) reading his posts?
Shadow is Mr Angry!
Shadow is Mr Angry!
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
McCain has actually been doing work
From what I've seen, he attened a lunch meeting with Senate Republicans and then went to the White House meeting where it all went to shit. At what point was he "hammering out a real deal" with "Republican and Democrat members of Congress" while Obama was "giving interviews"? The first bipartisan meeting he attended was the White House meeting. Point me to a link or something describing what he was doing.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Each week I get paid. 24% gets taken out in taxes before it even gets to my bank account. So, I have control over 76% of my money. When taxes are raised, which is what Obama's (the democrats) plan entails, that 76% will be less, so I will be in control of less of my money. I was not referring to having control over the money I pay in taxes. I count that as a sunk cost each week. I am not on welfare, I get health insurance through work. I do drive on the roads, so I get a little bit back on the rare occasion a pothole gets fixed.
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if it makes you feel better, because of my income my tax rate is a bit higher than yours. just over 30 percent.
thats not what i pay of coarse. after writing off taxes, expenses, interest, and a few other things my EFFECTIVE tax rate, the actual percentage of my pay i REALLY REALLY pay is........12......percent.
obamas gona raise my taxes? what? is he gona raise it to 50 percent so my EFFECTIVE tax rate after deductions jumps to a whopping.....20.....percent?
hahahaha, thats the joke fat dollar earners laugh about in private after beratting any one DARING to suggest raising taxes on high income people. i make more money than you, yet i pay HALF as much in taxes percentage wise.
obamas gona raise it? dude, he would have to jack it up to 70 percent just to get me and other high income earners to pay OUR FAIR SHARE.
raise it. go ahead, make my day. force me to pay as much as a typical burger king employee does. i dare you.
you repubs need to find a better argument. being indignant because papa big bucks might eventually have to pay his fare share doesnt cut much ice with the average income earner in this country.
#33REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 26 2008 at 12:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, while your laughing it up and joking with your friends, the politicians are sticking that extra 5% in their pocket and encouraging you to work harder so they don't have to. And you and your ego eat it up. People like me just grin and bare it and wonder who we can vote for to keep our money.
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
McCain has actually been doing work
There are no details Joph. He was in meetings with members of Congress late into the night last night. That's what McCain did all day yesterday. Are you trying to argue that if the press doesn't report the blow by blow of negotiations on a bi-partisan agreement that it therefore isn't happening?
McCain is in the middle of that. Obama is standing on the sidelines. That's what's going on. But you're hearing Obama's side of things because he's the one giving the press an earful. But that's because he's not actually involved in the process of fixing this problem. Don't mistake press time with work Joph.
Quote:
From what I've seen, he attened a lunch meeting with Senate Republicans and then went to the White House meeting where it all went to shit.
Yup. Because the "deal" had not been agreed on by Republicans and contained many things in it that weren't related to the actual need of the moment but were on the Dem "wish list".
Quote:
At what point was he "hammering out a real deal" with "Republican and Democrat members of Congress" while Obama was "giving interviews"? The first bipartisan meeting he attended was the White House meeting. Point me to a link or something describing what he was doing.
Um... Yesterday afternoon and evening? You know. The time period when Obama managed to make about 5 or 6 press statements, but McCain could only be seen hurrying from one meeting to another? Who do you think was working?
Here's an article about what's been going on since then.
Just to give you an idea of the things that were changed, this one paragraph says it all:
Quote:
Democrats, too, signaled they were considering jettisoning some of their own priorities.
Frank indicated they might ultimately drop a requirement that a portion of any profits from the rescue be funneled to a fund to build housing for low-income people. That mandate, deeply unpopular with Republicans, "is not an essential," Frank said.
Frank indicated they might ultimately drop a requirement that a portion of any profits from the rescue be funneled to a fund to build housing for low-income people. That mandate, deeply unpopular with Republicans, "is not an essential," Frank said.
Funny how I predicted this last week. I said that the problem with the financial systems was that it had been used as a means of funding Democrat social spending. And here's Frank, in the midst of a crisis largely of his making, trying to add yet more of that same spending into the emergency plan to fix the problem.
Gee. I can't imagine why that first meeting didn't go so well...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Quote:
Quote:
Democrats, too, signaled they were considering jettisoning some of their own priorities.
Frank indicated they might ultimately drop a requirement that a portion of any profits from the rescue be funneled to a fund to build housing for low-income people. That mandate, deeply unpopular with Republicans, "is not an essential," Frank said.
Funny how I predicted this last week. I said that the problem with the financial systems was that it had been used as a means of funding Democrat social spending. And here's Frank, in the midst of a crisis largely of his making, trying to add yet more of that same spending into the emergency plan to fix the problem.
Gee. I can't imagine why that first meeting didn't go so well...
Democrats, too, signaled they were considering jettisoning some of their own priorities.
Frank indicated they might ultimately drop a requirement that a portion of any profits from the rescue be funneled to a fund to build housing for low-income people. That mandate, deeply unpopular with Republicans, "is not an essential," Frank said.
Funny how I predicted this last week. I said that the problem with the financial systems was that it had been used as a means of funding Democrat social spending. And here's Frank, in the midst of a crisis largely of his making, trying to add yet more of that same spending into the emergency plan to fix the problem.
Gee. I can't imagine why that first meeting didn't go so well...
Gee, how shameful it is for Frank to want to help people in need during a crisis...shame on him.
gbaji wrote:
Um... Yesterday afternoon and evening? You know. The time period when Obama managed to make about 5 or 6 press statements, but McCain could only be seen hurrying from one meeting to another? Who do you think was working?
God, you're a tool. You just believe anything you hear, don't you?
Quote:
There are no details Joph.
Edited, Sep 26th 2008 3:30pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
soulshaver wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Democrats, too, signaled they were considering jettisoning some of their own priorities.
Frank indicated they might ultimately drop a requirement that a portion of any profits from the rescue be funneled to a fund to build housing for low-income people. That mandate, deeply unpopular with Republicans, "is not an essential," Frank said.
Funny how I predicted this last week. I said that the problem with the financial systems was that it had been used as a means of funding Democrat social spending. And here's Frank, in the midst of a crisis largely of his making, trying to add yet more of that same spending into the emergency plan to fix the problem.
Gee. I can't imagine why that first meeting didn't go so well...
Gee, how shameful it is for Frank to want to help people in need during a crisis...shame on him.
Um... That's not it. What he wanted to do was to take the 700 Billion to bail out the lending industry and then down the line when the lending industry started to make a profit, instead of say paying the taxpayers back in the form of tax cuts or something, using it to pay for yet more loans to people who can't afford them.
This portion of the "plan" had nothing to do with helping people who today have bad loans, but would use the money to pay for more bad loans in the future.
It's called not learning from your freaking mistakes. Gotta admit though, Barney's got some big balls on him to try to put that in there...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
I really think some of you simply don't understand why this crisis happened. It happened because of one thing: Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac were required by government regulation to provide "conforming" loans in order to help poor and minority people to own a home. Specifically, it allowed them to provide loans to people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan by borrowing money from the Fed at below normal rates. The sub-prime loans happened because those lending organizations were required to back the loans. Those requirements were the result of Democrat programs just like the one Frank proposed to slip into the bailout bill.
Over decades the cost of doing this was hidden, but was slowly weighing down the financial industries. Eventually, the bill came due. That 700 Billion is the "debt" we've accrued over time by running those housing programs. Money that we were borrowing from ourselves essentially. Well. Now we've got to pay that money back.
Given the history of this problem, it's the height of absurdity for Frank to attempt to use the bailout money to put yet another low-income housing fund onto the backs of the taxpayer. It's like the guy doesn't get that it's those very policies that caused the problem. He's still trying to figure out ways to saddle us with yet more spending down the line. We should be figuring out how to avoid future problems like this, not putting more into the "solution" on the table.
That's why Republicans refused to accept the deal as it was proposed. The Dems attempted to use it to put more of their pet spending project into play. What's staggering is that the media is playing this out like there was nothing wrong with the proposal and the Republicans are bad guys for blocking it.
Over decades the cost of doing this was hidden, but was slowly weighing down the financial industries. Eventually, the bill came due. That 700 Billion is the "debt" we've accrued over time by running those housing programs. Money that we were borrowing from ourselves essentially. Well. Now we've got to pay that money back.
Given the history of this problem, it's the height of absurdity for Frank to attempt to use the bailout money to put yet another low-income housing fund onto the backs of the taxpayer. It's like the guy doesn't get that it's those very policies that caused the problem. He's still trying to figure out ways to saddle us with yet more spending down the line. We should be figuring out how to avoid future problems like this, not putting more into the "solution" on the table.
That's why Republicans refused to accept the deal as it was proposed. The Dems attempted to use it to put more of their pet spending project into play. What's staggering is that the media is playing this out like there was nothing wrong with the proposal and the Republicans are bad guys for blocking it.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
gbaji wrote:
I really think some of you simply don't understand why this crisis happened. It happened because of one thing: Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac were required by government regulation to provide "conforming" loans in order to help poor and minority people to own a home. Specifically, it allowed them to provide loans to people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan by borrowing money from the Fed at below normal rates. The sub-prime loans happened because those lending organizations were required to back the loans. Those requirements were the result of Democrat programs just like the one Frank proposed to slip into the bailout bill.
Yes, thanks due to George Bush and his "ownership society".
The White House wrote:
# Expanding Homeownership. The President believes that homeownership is the cornerstone of America's vibrant communities and benefits individual families by building stability and long-term financial security. In June 2002, President Bush issued America's Homeownership Challenge to the real estate and mortgage finance industries to encourage them to join the effort to close the gap that exists between the homeownership rates of minorities and non-minorities. The President also announced the goal of increasing the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families before the end of the decade. Under his leadership, the overall U.S. homeownership rate in the second quarter of 2004 was at an all time high of 69.2 percent. Minority homeownership set a new record of 51 percent in the second quarter, up 0.2 percentage point from the first quarter and up 2.1 percentage points from a year ago. President Bush's initiative to dismantle the barriers to homeownership includes:
* American Dream Downpayment Initiative, which provides down payment assistance to approximately 40,000 low-income families;
* Affordable Housing. The President has proposed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit, which would increase the supply of affordable homes;
* Helping Families Help Themselves. The President has proposed increasing support for the Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program; and
* Simplifying Homebuying and Increasing Education. The President and HUD want to empower homebuyers by simplifying the home buying process so consumers can better understand and benefit from cost savings. The President also wants to expand financial education efforts so that families can understand what they need to do to become homeowners.
Love,
PunkFloyd
PunkFloyd
Um... You'll notice that none of those initiatives involve lowering the standards for qualifying for a home loan. That program had nothing at all to do with the current crisis.
Nice try though!
Nice try though!
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Quote:
Each week I get paid. 24% gets taken out in taxes before it even gets to my bank account. So, I have control over 76% of my money. When taxes are raised, which is what Obama's (the democrats) plan entails, that 76% will be less,
I seriously doubt that is the case. What's your adjusted gross income?
If it's $75, 000 or under then you'll be taxed much lesss under Obama.
You don't strike me as a very wealthy man.
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