Radical Islam's War Against the West
Has anyone seen this yet? We got an hour-long "pre-release" edition today, I believe in the paper, and I was thinking of watching it. Just curious as to peoples' thoughts or comments on it.
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I was reading about how a 501c group has been sending thses out to be bundle with local newspapers in battleground states. I understand it's is trying to scare voters against voting for Obama.
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Clarion Fund, a shadowy outfit whose financial backers are unclear.
In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair! -ElneClare
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
Just based on the title, it has to be good, seeing that radical islamo-facists have entirely subverted the religion to be synonymous with beheadings, honor killings, clitty chopping, and suicide bombings.
Totem
Totem
Totem wrote:
Just based on the title, it has to be good, seeing that radical islamo-facists have entirely subverted the religion to be synonymous with beheadings, honor killings, clitty chopping, and suicide bombings.
Totem
Totem
They did a lot of that stuff in the medieval era too, they just didn't categorise it as part of their faith. Well, maybe not the excision. But beheadings, suicide attacks, yeah. That happened a lot.
The Qu'ran has a very interesting part about "marital jealousy", which basically says that it's good to feel anxious about your wife socialising with other men and to prevent her from doing so, because that's like...looking out for the safety of your marriage, rather than being insecure and paranoid. Take that how you will.
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They did a lot of that stuff in the medieval era too, they just didn't categorise it as part of their faith. Well, maybe not the excision. But beheadings, suicide attacks, yeah. That happened a lot.
Are you honestly basing this extremely deluded and incorrect assessment of islam on a few suras and events that are more causally linked to being @#%^ing evil human beings, rather than associating with the last prophet?
The title itself is just @#%^ing moronic. You can't conscientiously simp[lify a struggle like that into "radicals" versus "the west" as if either of the @#%^ing categories were monolithic and eternal. Neither word comes even close to doing justice for the nuances of what is happening in the scenario, and they are extremely biased to boot.
Edited, Sep 13th 2008 1:09pm by Pensive
What the Catholic church did to the Jews, the Muslims, its own members and members of other ethnic groups during the Inquisition was pretty horrific.
If Protestants had left the church because of the atrocities of the Inquisition, then Protestant Christians would actually have a leg to stand on when it comes to denouncing horrors committed upon other human beings. Instead, the 95 Theses are about financial matters being confused with spiritual matters. Mainstream Protestant Christianity wasn't started because the Catholic church killed other human beings, it was started because the leaders of the church was greedy pigs.
Is there a branch of Protestant Christianity that broke off because they didn't want to kill other people? If so, let me know, I'd like to learn more about that church.
If Protestants had left the church because of the atrocities of the Inquisition, then Protestant Christians would actually have a leg to stand on when it comes to denouncing horrors committed upon other human beings. Instead, the 95 Theses are about financial matters being confused with spiritual matters. Mainstream Protestant Christianity wasn't started because the Catholic church killed other human beings, it was started because the leaders of the church was greedy pigs.
Is there a branch of Protestant Christianity that broke off because they didn't want to kill other people? If so, let me know, I'd like to learn more about that church.
Totem wrote:
Just based on the title, it has to be good, seeing that Fox News has entirely subverted the religion to be synonymous with beheadings, honor killings, clitty chopping, and suicide bombings.
Totem
Totem
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
What the Catholic church did to the Jews, the Muslims, its own members and members of other ethnic groups during the Inquisition was pretty horrific.
If Protestants had left the church because of the atrocities of the Inquisition, then Protestant Christians would actually have a leg to stand on when it comes to denouncing horrors committed upon other human beings. Instead, the 95 Theses are about financial matters being confused with spiritual matters. Mainstream Protestant Christianity wasn't started because the Catholic church killed other human beings, it was started because the leaders of the church was greedy pigs.
Is there a branch of Protestant Christianity that broke off because they didn't want to kill other people? If so, let me know, I'd like to learn more about that church.
If Protestants had left the church because of the atrocities of the Inquisition, then Protestant Christians would actually have a leg to stand on when it comes to denouncing horrors committed upon other human beings. Instead, the 95 Theses are about financial matters being confused with spiritual matters. Mainstream Protestant Christianity wasn't started because the Catholic church killed other human beings, it was started because the leaders of the church was greedy pigs.
Is there a branch of Protestant Christianity that broke off because they didn't want to kill other people? If so, let me know, I'd like to learn more about that church.
As for Inquisition, they killed a tiny fraction of the number killed under the Anti-Catholic backlash by Proddies in Northern Europe at the time.
Lern2Hist'ry
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Yeah, it only TOOK OFF because of that. But it wasn't even started because they were killing other people.
I heard that over 100,000 women were killed during the European witch hunts, which is many more than the official number killed during various inquisitions.
Point is, Christians can't hold any historical moral high ground.
I heard that over 100,000 women were killed during the European witch hunts, which is many more than the official number killed during various inquisitions.
Point is, Christians can't hold any historical moral high ground.
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Point is, Christians can't hold any historical moral high ground.
See how I can agree with you, and still be unduly aggressive? It's a fUcking rehtorical art-form.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
It's hard to hold a decent debate when your avatar has the most adorable cat painting in existence on it.
It screams, "Would this face lie to you????"
It screams, "Would this face lie to you????"
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
It's hard to hold a decent debate when your avatar has the most adorable cat painting in existence on it.
It screams, "Would this face lie to you????"
It screams, "Would this face lie to you????"
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Nobby wrote:
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
What the Catholic church did to the Jews, the Muslims, its own members and members of other ethnic groups during the Inquisition was pretty horrific.
If Protestants had left the church because of the atrocities of the Inquisition, then Protestant Christians would actually have a leg to stand on when it comes to denouncing horrors committed upon other human beings. Instead, the 95 Theses are about financial matters being confused with spiritual matters. Mainstream Protestant Christianity wasn't started because the Catholic church killed other human beings, it was started because the leaders of the church was greedy pigs.
Is there a branch of Protestant Christianity that broke off because they didn't want to kill other people? If so, let me know, I'd like to learn more about that church.
If Protestants had left the church because of the atrocities of the Inquisition, then Protestant Christians would actually have a leg to stand on when it comes to denouncing horrors committed upon other human beings. Instead, the 95 Theses are about financial matters being confused with spiritual matters. Mainstream Protestant Christianity wasn't started because the Catholic church killed other human beings, it was started because the leaders of the church was greedy pigs.
Is there a branch of Protestant Christianity that broke off because they didn't want to kill other people? If so, let me know, I'd like to learn more about that church.
As for Inquisition, they killed a tiny fraction of the number killed under the Anti-Catholic backlash by Proddies in Northern Europe at the time.
Lern2Hist'ry
Nobby is correct. For example, what the fundamentalist Protestant Cromwell did the Irish Catholics and catholics throughout Great Britain rivals what Hitler did to the Jews in percentage of population killed by genocide. Also the thirty year war fought over protestantism also devastated Germany.
The Inquisition was a brutal tool used to solidify Catholic control and has been largely exaggerated in its scope. They usually did not target Muslims and Jews directly as their jurisdiction was usually limited to members of the church. However in Spain and in other countries all Muslims and Jews were forbidden from doing business with the crown. Thus many Muslims and Jews practiced Catholicism in public and their true religions in private. In Spain there was a much larger minority religious population than many other inquisition countries, and many of these people were the targets of the Spanish inquisition because they pretended to be Church members to avoid discrimination. This is the reason that the Spanish Inquisition is often called out as the worst, just because the numbers were a little higher than in other countries like France.
There are also stories of people who had committed regular crimes and been convicted of such like robbery, who then intentionally committed blasphemy because the treatment in regular prisons of the day was much worse than inquisition prisons. The brutality of the inquisition was less than that in regular prison, but both would be extreme in modern society. The fact that people were treated this way just because of their religious beliefs is what makes it an audacious period of history.
Edited, Sep 13th 2008 5:50pm by fhrugby
Got the DVD free with the newspaper today, and decided to watch it. It is definitely fear-mongering, but hey, that's what their purpose is. I think it was worth watching, but a few things just were blatant propaganda (for example, the clip of toppling the statue of Saddam just after someone says "Evil never just disappears by itself").
Overall in the end I got a clear message: vote for Obama. While probably not what the makers of the film were trying to get across, they did say comments like "Education and hope will win this war" (aka, what we're doing isn't working, more military and 100 years in Iraq is bad), and calling the tactics of Radical Islam "post-modern warfare" (implying that the current strategy, or conventionally modern warfare, it outdated. As it is). I got the message that talking won't work on the most extreme leaders, but there's no permanent solution unless we can educate the next generations in peace.
Ok, maybe they didn't try to get that message across at all, but the only other one I could see them trying to get across is "We're trying to scare the sh*t out of you so you vote for McCain, the guy whose ways won't work but he'll make you feel safer. But you shouldn't feel safe; you should be scared and aware!" Note, I say his ways won't work because of the two quoted parts in the previous paragraphs; they come right out and say this is a new war and that education will lead to peace. They don't mention our military, probably because it would be a lie to say it's helping.
I did laugh at that Saddam statue part though. Their entire point of that montage (which also included toppling a statue of Lenin and the protester v. tanks in Tienanmen Square) was that these actions have made us safer. I would argue that toppling Saddam has led to a fertile extremist breeding ground in Iraq and anger across the Middle East, and that bad-mouthing China is a verrrry bad idea considering our interdependence, and since we're in such a hostile argument with Russia reminding them of the "failure" of the leader of communism might not be the brightest moves.
Still, again, worth watching. See what you take away from it, enjoy the eerie background music and tenuous connections to **** Germany, and do your own research to get involved like they recommend.
Overall in the end I got a clear message: vote for Obama. While probably not what the makers of the film were trying to get across, they did say comments like "Education and hope will win this war" (aka, what we're doing isn't working, more military and 100 years in Iraq is bad), and calling the tactics of Radical Islam "post-modern warfare" (implying that the current strategy, or conventionally modern warfare, it outdated. As it is). I got the message that talking won't work on the most extreme leaders, but there's no permanent solution unless we can educate the next generations in peace.
Ok, maybe they didn't try to get that message across at all, but the only other one I could see them trying to get across is "We're trying to scare the sh*t out of you so you vote for McCain, the guy whose ways won't work but he'll make you feel safer. But you shouldn't feel safe; you should be scared and aware!" Note, I say his ways won't work because of the two quoted parts in the previous paragraphs; they come right out and say this is a new war and that education will lead to peace. They don't mention our military, probably because it would be a lie to say it's helping.
I did laugh at that Saddam statue part though. Their entire point of that montage (which also included toppling a statue of Lenin and the protester v. tanks in Tienanmen Square) was that these actions have made us safer. I would argue that toppling Saddam has led to a fertile extremist breeding ground in Iraq and anger across the Middle East, and that bad-mouthing China is a verrrry bad idea considering our interdependence, and since we're in such a hostile argument with Russia reminding them of the "failure" of the leader of communism might not be the brightest moves.
Still, again, worth watching. See what you take away from it, enjoy the eerie background music and tenuous connections to **** Germany, and do your own research to get involved like they recommend.
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
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That was actually my first thought when I read the topic originally. Until I actually got the DVD I had no idea what it was about.
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