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Bush to invake Pakistan!Follow

#27 Sep 11 2008 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
VenomusValefor wrote:
Redpheonixxx as i dont agree with alot of what you quoted


The stuff I quoted came from VArrus. I understand though, with all these buttons and lines and letters everywhere it's hard to know what the hell is going on.

Quote:
either you make your self just look like an *** by just replying false to everything without any counter statements.


Or... what?

You can't just have an "either" and then nothing else. Don't I at least get a choice? Because then it's not "either", it just is.

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So please next time just STFU when considering replying like that. You just make people with your views look like retards.


People with the "False" view?

Look, I could get into a debate regarding Varru's view, but they're retarded. He himself knows they're retarded. He's not serious when he says all this ****. No one could be, come on. It's all an act. In real life, Varrus is a Policy Officer for the World Food Program. He lives in Geneva, drives a Prius, and is a vegan.
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#28 Sep 11 2008 at 3:24 PM Rating: Default
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Relax folks. There isn't going to be a war over this.

It's face savings on both sides. The US forces, if they see activity on the other side of the border, will go in without first getting permission. The Pakistani government will condemn this. Both sides get what they want.

If they have to get permission, then that means that the Pakistani government has to give it. Which has political ramifications for them. It's much easier if they nod and wink at the US forces privately while wagging their fingers at them publicly. Magically, of course, there wont be any actual Pakistani troops involved in any of the locations involved...

Much ado about nothing really.
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More words please
#29 Sep 11 2008 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
If they have to get permission, then that means that the Pakistani government has to give it. Which has political ramifications for them.


Right, as opposed to letting the US invade their sovereignty by sending military forces into their territory to kill people when ever they please. This will have no ramifications whatsoever, right?
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#30 Sep 11 2008 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If they have to get permission, then that means that the Pakistani government has to give it. Which has political ramifications for them.


Right, as opposed to letting the US invade their sovereignty by sending military forces into their territory to kill people when ever they please. This will have no ramifications whatsoever, right?


In the region we're talking about? Not really. It's their sovereign territory on paper and on a map, but the central Pakistan government has very little control or influence there. They have to make the claim that it's their territory, but they have never been able to police it much less enforce their laws there.

If they can get the US to take all the risk while officially wagging their fingers at them in order to calm their own citizens and retain their official sovereign claim to the area, it ends out being a win/win for them all the way around.
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#31 Sep 11 2008 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
It's their sovereign territory on paper and on a map, but the central Pakistan government has very little control or influence there. They have to make the claim that it's their territory, but they have never been able to police it much less enforce their laws there.


They don't. It's their territory, and the government is perfectly active in that region and aware of what is going on. You really think the ISI isn't present and heavily involved there?

Quote:
If they can get the US to take all the risk while officially wagging their fingers at them in order to calm their own citizens and retain their official sovereign claim to the area, it ends out being a win/win for them all the way around.


I'm not sure a new government will be seen as effective if all it does is "wave a finger".

Having said that, I don't think "war" will break out either. I think it will cause further instability for the government, and popular unrest. The government will either be seen as weak or as ineffectual, certainly they'll be seen as puppet to Western interests, and it will reinforce the propaganda war of the extremists.

I don't think it's a great move, but there have been much worse, I'll give you that.
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#32 Sep 11 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Relax folks. There isn't going to be a war over this.

It's face savings on both sides. The US forces, if they see activity on the other side of the border, will go in without first getting permission. The Pakistani government will condemn this. Both sides get what they want.
Which is why you threw a princess's tizzy when Obama said it and declared how it proven him naive Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

Gbaji previously wrote:
Of course, he also said that he'd invade Pakistan if he thought that Al-Qaeda was there, so I think we all have some idea of just how "newbie" he is to the concepts of foreign policy
Start your backpedalling!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#33 Sep 15 2008 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Dubai seems to be following the same plan that Japan did after WWII. Rather than try to assert military dominance, they'll settle for economic dominance. They're richer, their people are richer and don't have to work as much, and everyone is happy. Hell, they're increasing the land area of the country by moving mountains into the ocean and building up more beachfront property, because there wasn't enough room for the explosive growth.

From what I've heard, other than the occasional woman walking around in a hijab, it could be any big city in the US. (And actually you get that in some of the cities in the US anyway.)


Just an addition to the whole "Muslim = unstable" argument:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/03/19/8402357/index.htm

I think its pretty god damn stable over here :).

Anyways what I see from this side of the world, not many are making a big deal about that operation, only few fanatics in Pakistan which claim the targets were innocent (probably to start some political unrest vs US).
#34 Sep 15 2008 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's their sovereign territory on paper and on a map, but the central Pakistan government has very little control or influence there. They have to make the claim that it's their territory, but they have never been able to police it much less enforce their laws there.



September 15, 2008 Officials: Pakistani Troops Fired on US Helicopters Trying to Cross Border
Quote:
Early this morning, US helicopters crossed the border into Pakistan’s South Waziristan Agency and attempted to land in Angor Adda, in a raid reminiscent of September 3rd’s unprecedented attack by US helicopters and ground forces in the same region, which killed 20 civilians.


Link.

All going to plan there then.

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#35 Sep 16 2008 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Relax folks. There isn't going to be a war over this.

It's face savings on both sides. The US forces, if they see activity on the other side of the border, will go in without first getting permission. The Pakistani government will condemn this. Both sides get what they want.
Which is why you threw a princess's tizzy when Obama said it and declared how it proven him naive Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

Gbaji previously wrote:
Of course, he also said that he'd invade Pakistan if he thought that Al-Qaeda was there, so I think we all have some idea of just how "newbie" he is to the concepts of foreign policy
Start your backpedalling!


Start?

If he can string a few posts together without contradicting either (a) reality or (b) common definitions of words then maybe he would be worth discussing things with.
#36 Sep 16 2008 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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The Ari solution to all this:

America takes a batch of nice motivated special ops people, and tells them they are selected for a mission for their country. They then fire the special ops boysngirls, and hire them on as police with the usual wage and benefits, and any bonuses as needed.

They equip their shiny new police officers with search and rescue police equipment for rugged terrain, and the police version of SWAT firepower.

They go to the Pakistani government with arrest warrants, and ask for Extradition Orders, and permission for police officers to enter the country to execute the arrest warrants. They also ask for permission for their police officers to investigate and arrest people of interest who seem to be in cahoots with the people that they have arrest warrants for. They promise the American police in Pakistan will work in liaison with the Pakistani police department, and give them reports and documents and so forth.

The American police sent to Pakistan this way to arrest these particular guys are sent with a couple of "Real" police to set an example and tell the new nice police officers how nice police officers behave to civilians and criminals. The American police sent to Pakistan accept Pakistan police along with them, or any other Pakistan "police" sent along with them.

Later on, these nice American police officers can be awarded civilian Honours, public recognition and medals, as might be appropriate for bravery and community service and so forth. Sadly, later, they might want to resign from the police force, and maybe go back to the army that they miss. Or maybe not. Maybe they'd like to go through full police training, and stay.

Edited, Sep 17th 2008 2:24am by Aripyanfar
#37 Sep 17 2008 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
Without conceding stupidity on Bush's part
Flip-flopper!
#38 Sep 17 2008 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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The Paki government has little control in the western regions of the country bordering Afganistan. There is real concern that should Muslim extremists make political or forcible military gains over there the nuclear weapons Pakistan holds could end up in the hands of some very dangerous people.

The Paki gov intuitively understands this and thus tacitly allows US forces operate in those uncontrolled regions along the Afgan-Paki border, which serves multiple purposes for all three countries.

Totem
#39 Sep 17 2008 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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I just realized something. Varrus is Archie Bunker.


Quote:
I understand though, with all these buttons and lines and letters everywhere it's hard to know what the hell is going on.


lol
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