Speaking of relijin.Follow

Yes you are.Excommunication isn't meant to be a permanent status where the person stops being Catholic; it's a (hopefully) temporary status where the Church refuses to grant you the benefits of being a Christian until you reconcile. However, it does not strip you of your basic Christianity.

Edited, Sep 10th 2008 8:21pm by Jophiel

Is being an "ethnic Catholic" as a Pole the equivilent of being Jamacian "ethnic Voodoo practitioner"? Or a Hollywood/Rodeo Drive Scientologist?

Totem

You said you are an "ethnic" Catholic, based on your Polish ancestory. I made the extension of that line of reasoning and asked if Jamacians were then "ethnic" Voodoo practitioners or residents of Rodeo Drive ethnic Scientologists.

I attempted to make an obtuse fun-nay. Obviously it was very obtuse.
:D

Totem

Ahhh, the fond wishes of every parent of a teenager: An RC* child. If only...

Totem
















*RC = remote controlled

I think the larger meaning of baptism is being misunderstood here. The common idea is that baptism somehow insulates one from Hell as if it were a religious insurance policy that you or your parents take out on you. And that by being baptised you take a shortcut to the whole conversion and living a godly life experience and make it to the head of the line on Judgement Day.

Baptism is largely a symbolic ritual for the family that visually demonstrates what conversion to Christianity does: A cleansing of sins. This does not mean that upon being baptised you are cleansed of your sins, it just shows the act of being washed, and in part, the act of dying and being raised back to life.

The basis for this experience was because washing was considered both a courtesy and a social norm back in Biblical days. You didn't enter another person's home without washing the dirt and grime off your feet. For a homeowner not to offer a bowl of water to a guest was considered a social offense, and for a guest it was a polite way to demonstrate respect for the family of the man he was there to meet.

Furthermore, there was greater meaning in that baptism was used to demonstrate obedience. Naamun, a powerful commander in an enemy's army, was told by Elisha, a major Israelite prophet, to wash multiple times in a tiny and by-and-large dirty Israelite river to rid himself of leprosy. He initially was affronted by such a demand, thinking he could wash in a much larger and cleaner river back home, but his Jewish slave/handmaiden convinced him to try it. The end result was that Naamun was cured of an incurable disease because he had faith and was obedient to the Israelite God he did not worship himself.

Modern baptism has been skewed in some people's minds to be the second half of the salvation experience. One cannot be truly saved until baptism has taken place. These same believers do not accept infant baptism or sprinkling of water on a person to be adequate for the act of baptism.

Those in the Reformed faith view baptism as an act demonstrating that the person is considered to be in the family of God, even if conversion hasn't taken place. The scripture that speaks to God's favor being on a believer's children and children's children is used to bolster this view. Thus infant baptsim is a visable sign of the covenant of God. Adult baptism occurs after salvation and the public declaration of the same.

This overview might help explain the whole baptism thing to people here who aren't familiar to church functions. Just sayin'.

Totem

I'm glad my dad didn't let my mom baptize me.

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its all the same book.

God didnt create religon, man did. God just is. it is man that decided to divide the power of his words up into smaller pieces to gleam power for differant sects of the population for themselves.

the pope is just a man. no differant than a pastor, cleric, or even a simple preacher. no brimstome. no flames. just a choice as to which sect you wish to empower with your patronage in exchange for gleeming a piece of the word of God that was given to us whole and freely. all of us.

its no differant than the whole democrat/republican thing. a division of people so a few can carve out a power base from the one whole.

doesnt matter. they all preach from the same book and about the same God. God doesnt care what you wear. or where you go to hear his words. he doesnt even care what rituals you embrace to hear his words either as long as they do not go against his 10 commandments.

all He cares is weather you hear His words or not. if you dont feel the need to empower one of mans religions, just read the book in the privacy of your own home.

But even the act of choosing which book you'll read is empowering some man's religion.

A message from god itself is the only way to get the true truth. It's coming to me now through my Cheezits. This is why I must continue to keep eating them.

Why, is having water sprinkled on you harmful?

No, I don't follow Catholic tenets; however, everything I've heard or read on the subject leads me to believe that is how it works. Not baptized? You don't get to hang out with the cool kids. Baptized sinner? After the apocalypse you basically get to give a 'Jesus, my bad.', do some time in ethereal rehab, and then get to hang out with your buddies and JC eating lollypops and skipping along to Neil Diamond music for all eternity. 'least, that's how I picture it.

I was under the impression we'd stand around singing hymns of praise for the glory of the Almighty for all eternity. I may have to rethink my heathenism.