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NBC/WSJ pollFollow

#1 Sep 10 2008 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26625154/

In short, Palin has changed the nature of this election. She has drawn women voters to the Republican side in droves and has massively energized the conservative base.

On the positve side for Dems, the Black Neo still holds a 1 point lead over McCain (47-46%). However, that has to be tempered with the fact that he has continued to lose ground steadily for the last several months.

Totem
#2 Sep 10 2008 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
However, that has to be tempered with the fact that he has continued to lose ground steadily for the last several months.
Smiley: dubious

Obama's polling was in the same 2% band (46-48) pretty much since May. This is the first time he's really dropped out of it (with 45% average).

The WSJ poll seems to show that McCain's bounce is leveling off (Rasmussen today was Obama +1 again although Gallup still shows McCain +5). We're back to a nearly tied race from a national standpoint, same as it was just prior to the conventions when you were last gloating over some poll.
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#3 Sep 10 2008 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, who have you pee'd off, Totem? :D
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#5 Sep 10 2008 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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Jo, in the article I linked it showed...

In that poll, Obama holds a narrow one-point lead over McCain (47-46 percent), which is down from his three-point advantage in August (45-42 percent) and six-point edge in July (47-41 percent).

July: 6 percentage lead
August: 3 percentage points
September: 1 percentage point

This shows a steady and hopefully inexorable decline in Obama's popularity, which would lead to a solid McCain victory in November.

Totem

#6REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2008 at 12:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) mccain did a fantastic job of stealing the show for the convention. all obama did was pick one of the obvious choices and banter about policy.
#7 Sep 10 2008 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
Jo, in the article I linked it showed...

In that poll...
Yeah, that would be why people use polling averages and not one exclusive poll.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Sep 10 2008 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
"The findings from this survey — which was conducted of 860 registered voters from Sept. 6-8, and which has a margin of error of plus-minus 3.3 percentage points — are consistent with other recent national polls showing the race to essentially be tied after the conventions and vice presidential selections."

The margin of error is vastly larger then that. They did not ask enough people.

What they think they are citing is the one sigma standard deviation, meaning that there is a 2 in 3 chance that the error is within that limit and about a 95% chance the error is less then twice that size.

They are assuming their method of selecting people is flawless, meaning they truly have a random sample of people, which is impossible to achieve. There is a separate systematic error they need to add to this to even have a true one sigma error bar.
#9 Sep 10 2008 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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shadowrelm wrote:
and palin? at best, she is going to bring out some right wingers that may have decided to take a pass because of bush. mabe a few women voters who are "women first, country be damned" types. but she isnt going to get the middle to come to the repubs for her. she is too far to the right.


Those who think that grossly underestimate the number of conservative women and the number of moderate and even traditionally Democrat voting women who identify with the goal of empowering women but don't necessarily buy into the rest of the feminist movement. You're assuming those latter groups have voted historically Dem because they agree with the whole Liberal platform rather than in spite of it.

They also grossly underestimate the degree to which a candidate's personality and history matter more than their gender.

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and remember, obama still hasnt pounded on the iraq and torure issue. and by iraq i mean why we went in the first place, not how best to handle it now that we own it


You wont see much of that because it's a losing argument outside of those people who'll be voting for him anyway. Only those in the hard core "Bush lied and our soldiers died" crowd will be swayed by that line. It also ends up smacking too much of looking backwards rather than forwards. And it opens up the far more recent and relevant issue of the surge, which Obama just plain loses on. What it says is that Obama opposed the war, but when it happened anyway, instead of looking forward and figuring out how to make the best of it, he acted like a child who wanted to take his toys away when he didn't get what he wanted. That's not exactly presidential. People expect presidents to make decisions based on how the situation is today, not make decisions that'll make that situation worse in order to lend strength to an "I told you so" argument.

Oh. It also highlights his own inexperience. He wasn't in Congress to be part of making that decision anyway, so he ends up looking like the armchair quarterback. It's easy to hold an opposing position when you weren't actually responsible for having to make the decision at the time, and doubly easy to say "I was right" after the fact. Ultimately, this line of attack loses him more than it gains IMO.

Additionally, the torture thing is a no-gainer since McCain also opposed many of the Bush administration policies in the area of prisoner interrogation. Quite strongly, in fact. He'll only make himself look bad in comparison and weaken his whole "McCain is just like Bush" argument. Once more, it's just lose/lose if Obama goes in this direction.
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#10 Sep 10 2008 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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This particular poll is renowned for it's veracity, as far as polls go.

Totem
#11 Sep 10 2008 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
This particular poll is renowned for it's veracity, as far as polls go.
If it were that much the be-all, we wouldn't have a dozen other outfits.

I know you really want to make the point that Obama is in a free-fall or whatever but chosing to use one exclusive poll over the collected data of many polls isn't the way to make that argument.
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Belkira wrote:
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#12 Sep 10 2008 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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Granted, being the most accurate or trusted poll is most likely to be be akin to being the proverbial pianist in a bordello, but there it is. The NBC/WSJ poll is considered in the industry to be the most reliable by others, even by those who swear by Zogby. S'up, Smash? As always, take any poll with a grain or two of sodium, but despite what Yoss asserts as using insufficient data, this particular poll is thought to be the best.

At least the most musical in a roomful of hookers.

Totem
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