Brewsters MillionsFollow

Not that I support in any way the OPs position...



Sure. But there's no real difference at all between Obama's position on those issues and the stock Dem position for the last 30 years or so. So, "change" in this context means to decide to do the stuff that the voters have largely rejected since the Carter administration as being really really bad ideas...

There's nothing new about Obama's ideas. The fact that they'd be a "change" from Republican positions isn't sufficient reason to vote for him IMO. Doubly so if anyone's under the illusion that his position or methodology is anything truly new or different. They aren't. It's the same old garbage Dems have been trying to sell us for decades. It's just wrapped up in a new package in the hopes that people wont notice.




For those who are truly voting for him because they agree with his agenda, I have no problems. I'll argue anyway of course, but I can respect someone supporting a candidate on actual issues. What drives me nuts is the sheer number of people who seem to be supporting Obama, not because they're ok with taxing more to spend it on government programs to help the people, but because they think he wont do that, but will somehow magically make everything better anyway. Cause guess what? He's not going to do that.

He's going to push for the standard Dem platform: Raise tax revenue. Spend that tax revenue on federal programs targeted at primarily domestic needs. We can (and have, and probably will continue to) debate the goodness or badness of that agenda and the details of what the money gets spent on pretty much endlessly, but if you haven't grasped that this is the big difference between Democrats and Republicans then you've been voting for the wrong reasons most of your life.

Every time I ask how the McCain administration would significantly differ from the Bush administration, no one answers. Maybe this time I'll get lucky.

And you believed it?

Wow, you're naive.

No, I asked how his administration would differ from Bush's, not what the McCain party line is. Either you believed him when he said that or else you can scratch that off the list of differences. I'll let you tell me which it is.

I know that crying about Obama whenever the Republican ticket is mentioned is your natural defense, but I'm asking about McCain.

Do you think he'll end pork barrel spending?

I'm not asking for claims, I'm asking what the real differences will be.

McCain has a health care plan. What he calls the GAP coverage is essentially socialized medicine. It could be vastly better then what we have now. To my knowledge, there is no parallel socialized/market system and my initial thought is that all the difficult to insure will go to GAP (which, basically, is exactly what it says on the McCain website) so if you get an expensive condition, all your insurance provider has to do is make it exceptionally difficult for you to get the services you need and you'll migrate there by choice. Thus the taxpayers will take all the burden and the market insurance companies will make all the profits. To be honest, I think it is ten steps toward universal health care and maybe three steps away, whereas Obama's plan is eleven steps toward it, and two steps away.

It won't much matter.

However, I don't really think the Republicans as a whole will back McCain on this one. They had years to at least propose anything and failed. So I think it is significantly less likely to actually happen under McCain.

I'm certain McCain will end the use of torture.

I'm certain McCain will listen to opposing points of view.

I'm certain McCain will not appoint incompetents simply because they are his friends.

I'm certain McCain will be far more likely to listen to the intelligence community and critically examine all data - not just that with which he agrees.

McCain would be a godsend next to Bush.

Of course, Obama will be better on most all of these fronts, and has vastly better policy in other areas. I'm not certain I'm really addressing Jophiel outside the health care stuff, but I'm throwing it in as related, if off topic, comments.

Depends on if he thinks he could become friends with their tits.

Do you think McCain will end pork barrel spending?

It could be considered an irresponsible action to vote for a candidate one is not entirely certain about or for a political system that one is ignorant of than to not vote at all. I mean, I'm not a doctor, so I don't tell people what to do when they get sick. I send them to someone who is informed (a doctor) so that they can make the informed decision. If I am unfamiliar with the American political system, unfamiliar with its candidates, or unsure about their motives, then my vote would be dishonest; I'd be making an uninformed decision.

The vast majority of people vote for who they vote for based on who they're used to voting for. Many of them don't give it a lot of thought. This undermines the system; it would be perfect if we had 100% voter turnout, but if only half of those voters have even been following the election and only a fraction of them have really been paying attention, how valid are their votes? You get a man who's been fed apples all his life and ask if he prefers oranges or bananas. What he wants to say is "I don't know what those taste like, I've only ever eaten apples, and would rather pick them" and you go "no no no, it's oranges or bananas." He's probably going to make his decision based on their colour or, God forbid, the sound of their name, rather than what they taste like.

Here in Australia, voting is (technically) mandatory, which means that if you don't the Government sends you an angry letter and maybe a $50 fine. I know plenty of people who don't vote and they cop the fine on the chin. I ask why and they say that they don't feel like they can make the right decision about who runs the country; that the media misrepresents candidates, that the election trail focuses too much on scandals and political hiccups than actual debate about policy, that both candidates are unfit, and so on. People just want to vote for apples, and if apples aren't on the ballot they'd rather not vote at all.