WTF is with all these websites that don't have a correct or reasonable tab order?!? Anyone who has once worked in a data-entry type job, or just anyone who knows how to use a PC usually uses Tab as opposed to just clicking the next field with the mouse. But why have web developers moved away from working tab orders? This means that when you push Tab, you don't know what field you are going to next.
I first noticed this on YouTube. When you type in a name to search by, and then press Tab (thinking it will go the "Search" button), it goes back to "YouTube" icon. If you press enter on this icon, thinking you are on "Search", it reloads the main page of YouTube and knocks out your search criteria!
Yesteday, I was buying a new car insurance policy, and while filling out their online form, I hit tab to go to the next field. I then pressed a letter key to start typing the next field, and it loaded a page for a website security company! Why? Because someone set the tab order to drop down to their web security logo at the bottom of the page instead of jumping from Address to City!
Ok, I feel better now...
[/rant]
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Do web developers not know what tab order is?Follow
There is no real tab order control in html. Tab order is determined by the browser based on the order of the elements in the html. This oversight is not known by most amateur web developers (or professional developers turned web developers, as it may be). It's frustrating, sure, but it's not the most obvious thing to look for. Should be caught during QA testing, but I don't know that most QA testers are skilled UI folks or have any inclination that tab order is important to check.
In other words,
Nah, someone just wasn't thinking when they laid the page out. :P
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 5:02pm by BrownDuck
In other words,
Quote:
Because someone set the tab order
Nah, someone just wasn't thinking when they laid the page out. :P
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 5:02pm by BrownDuck
Mistress dacypher wrote:
I first noticed this on YouTube. When you type in a name to search by, and then press Tab (thinking it will go the "Search" button), it goes back to "YouTube" icon. If you press enter on this icon, thinking you are on "Search", it reloads the main page of YouTube and knocks out your search criteria![/rant]
I dunno about you, but that's not how it works on my PC.
Opera 9.52
Type in the search.
Hit tab, cursor moves to the pulldown menu for Video or Channel selection.
Hit tab, curosr moves to the Search button.
OR, you take the easy way out, type what you want and hit ENTER. You don't need to hit tab because hitting enter in the search field makes it search for what ever you typed, same in google.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
BrownDuck the Wise wrote:
There is no real tab order control in html. Tab order is determined by the browser based on the order of the elements in the html. This oversight is not known by most amateur web developers (or professional developers turned web developers, as it may be). It's frustrating, sure, but it's not the most obvious thing to look for. Should be caught during QA testing, but I don't know that most QA testers are skilled UI folks or have any inclination that tab order is important to check.
In other words,
Nah, someone just wasn't thinking when they laid the page out. :P
In other words,
Quote:
Because someone set the tab order
Nah, someone just wasn't thinking when they laid the page out. :P
True, that it is not set like "Tab Order" in Visual Studio (unless it is ASP.NET), you would think that a Fortune500 insurance company and one of the most visited websites on the internet would at least have some testers that would see that this is not laid out correctly.
Of course, even in desktop programs made with Visual Studio, many mid-sized developers don't pay a cent of attention to tab order.
TirithRR wrote:
Mistress dacypher wrote:
I first noticed this on YouTube. When you type in a name to search by, and then press Tab (thinking it will go the "Search" button), it goes back to "YouTube" icon. If you press enter on this icon, thinking you are on "Search", it reloads the main page of YouTube and knocks out your search criteria![/rant]
I dunno about you, but that's not how it works on my PC.
Opera 9.52
Type in the search.
Hit tab, cursor moves to the pulldown menu for Video or Channel selection.
Hit tab, curosr moves to the Search button.
OR, you take the easy way out, type what you want and hit ENTER. You don't need to hit tab because hitting enter in the search field makes it search for what ever you typed, same in google.
Sadly, I actually know about this. This is my data-entry background that makes me hit Tab, Enter by instinct.
And as far as yours acting differently, that's odd. I have never really used Opera for anything besides it's nice Proxy system. I know IE and Firefix will both take you to the YouTube icon after typing in search.
Uh, well, I just use a mouse. Like normal people.
Fynlar wrote:
Uh, well, I just use a mouse. Like normal people.
That is not normal. That's crazy speak.
Quote:
That is not normal. That's crazy speak.
NO U
Mistress dacypher wrote:
And as far as yours acting differently, that's odd. I have never really used Opera for anything besides it's nice Proxy system. I know IE and Firefix will both take you to the YouTube icon after typing in search.
Hmm, opened up IE and tested it out. It does take you to the Youtube icon. I don't have Firefox installed on this computer, only Opera. I wonder what makes Opera different (other than being superior).
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
TirithRR wrote:
Mistress dacypher wrote:
And as far as yours acting differently, that's odd. I have never really used Opera for anything besides it's nice Proxy system. I know IE and Firefix will both take you to the YouTube icon after typing in search.
Hmm, opened up IE and tested it out. It does take you to the Youtube icon. I don't have Firefox installed on this computer, only Opera. I wonder what makes Opera different (other than being superior).
The search box uses a property of the text input control called tabindex to set the tab order of the search box so that it is the first tab-accessible control on the page. Presumably, this is so that when you first hit the page, you have to tab only once to put your cursor in the search box. The downside is that not all HTML elements support this property (hence the reason it is rarely used), despite the fact that some are also given a tab order. Some links fall into this category, and the youtube logo is a link - the first tab-accessible element on the page, actually. By setting the tabindex to 1 for the search box, the tab order for the youtube logo link becomes #2, and thus, the next tab-accessible element after the text box, hence the funky tab order. Opera apparently ignores the tabindex property entirely, which is why it doesn't goof up the tab order. Opera in this case handles it in the most appropriate manner, even if not correctly.
In short, it's bad coding on the part of youtube, but your Opera doesn't seem to manifest it. They should have just put tabindex=2 on the search button.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 11:38pm by BrownDuck
TirithRR wrote:
Mistress dacypher wrote:
And as far as yours acting differently, that's odd. I have never really used Opera for anything besides it's nice Proxy system. I know IE and Firefix will both take you to the YouTube icon after typing in search.
Hmm, opened up IE and tested it out. It does take you to the Youtube icon. I don't have Firefox installed on this computer, only Opera. I wonder what makes Opera different (other than being superior).
It may be that Opera has it's own way of deciphering a tab order on a page. It would seem possible that a browser could find it's own ideal tab order from the basic layout of the page. Maybe that is what Opera is doing. If this is true, I think I may have found my new browser.
Mistress dacypher wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Mistress dacypher wrote:
And as far as yours acting differently, that's odd. I have never really used Opera for anything besides it's nice Proxy system. I know IE and Firefix will both take you to the YouTube icon after typing in search.
Hmm, opened up IE and tested it out. It does take you to the Youtube icon. I don't have Firefox installed on this computer, only Opera. I wonder what makes Opera different (other than being superior).
It may be that Opera has it's own way of deciphering a tab order on a page. It would seem possible that a browser could find it's own ideal tab order from the basic layout of the page. Maybe that is what Opera is doing. If this is true, I think I may have found my new browser.
Actually, from looking at it a bit more, it appears that some versions of opera and safari just don't support tab key navigation on anything but form fields and such. They apparently ignore links when the tab key is pressed, which would explain his reported behavior. I don't have or use opera, so I can't confirm at this time.
BrownDuck the Wise wrote:
Actually, from looking at it a bit more, it appears that some versions of opera and safari just don't support tab key navigation on anything but form fields and such. They apparently ignore links when the tab key is pressed, which would explain his reported behavior. I don't have or use opera, so I can't confirm at this time.
I just tested it again, and this is true. Tab will not highlight links. Only text feilds, selection boxes, and buttons.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
Why even tab to the search button? Just hit enter and it will search. Buncha fucking morans.
Paskil wrote:
Why even tab to the search button? Just hit enter and it will search. Buncha fucking morans.
For some people, tab+enter or even tab+space is a habit, just like dacypher stated earlier. Read the posts, goober.
BrownDuck the Wise wrote:
Paskil wrote:
Why even tab to the search button? Just hit enter and it will search. Buncha fucking morans.
For some people, tab+enter or even tab+space is a habit, just like dacypher stated earlier. Read the posts, goober.
I hate filling out the IP address fields in various softwares. Half the time they auto-move to the next field after the groups of 3, half the time they don't. And then of course you have numbers that are not a full 3, so as you hit tab on some and then type 3 numbers, and it auto moves, but you still hit tab...
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
TirithRR wrote:
I hate filling out the IP address fields in various softwares. Half the time they auto-move to the next field after the groups of 3, half the time they don't. And then of course you have numbers that are not a full 3, so as you hit tab on some and then type 3 numbers, and it auto moves, but you still hit tab...
Don't forget the ones that move when you press the period key.
BrownDuck the Wise wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
I hate filling out the IP address fields in various softwares. Half the time they auto-move to the next field after the groups of 3, half the time they don't. And then of course you have numbers that are not a full 3, so as you hit tab on some and then type 3 numbers, and it auto moves, but you still hit tab...
Don't forget the ones that move when you press the period key.
I wrote batch files to change my work laptop IP address because it was so annoying. (Different machines have different networks so I need to constantly change to connect).
I did it mainly because of my boss, he's not too good with computers (but he's great when it comes to PLC programming). So I had to make it easier for him and anyone else to connect the laptops to the machines.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
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