Without getting into a huge spanking debate...Follow

I know my elementary principle had a paddle with holes in it. I don't know that he ever used it, but it was hanging up behind his desk as a warning to all.

May as well have been a medieval instrument of torture for all the terror it inspired.

Lol, to me, Smash? And you're basing that on your tremendous experience in child rearing? You've raised what, 10 kids? 18 if we include those orphans you rescued from that burning building? 135 children if we add the foster kids you helped put through college?

To the uninitiated and untested child rearing is as simple as pressing Button A and getting Result B. Real life teaches an actual parent differently.

Only a fool throws away a viable option for raising a child effectively. And until you become a parent-- and not one by default, ie via Nexa's kid --you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Let me put some perspective on this discussion. When I was young, 24 years old, and my two kids were little, we had by all accounts well behaved, mild mannered children. I, in my hubris, believed I had figured out the secret to parenting. I thought I could raise 20 kids on the basis of what I had seen to that point. One girl, one boy, I had it covered, come to me for all the answers.

Then, little by little, as they grew older, I recognised that one size does not fit all. And by the time they were teenagers very different approaches to parenting were required to make any impact on their lives and behavior at all.

I've had the joy and priviledge of raising two good, well adjusted children, despite my errors in parenting, job choice, living conditions, and discipline. I've had the priviledge of seeing a wonderful, creative, but headstrong daughter and a self driven, self policing, and intensely charismatic son grow up into adults who are ready to begin their own families any day now. But if they should ever come to me asking for parenting advice I will firmly and voraciously advocate spanking for defiant behavior, because nothing, nothing is more destructive to a child's maturity and growth than him believing he's the boss in a child/parent relationship.

But you go on and tell us tales and give us the wisdom you've gleaned based on your vast experience in raising children. I'm all ears.

Totem

Evil ones are.

"It's less effective than talking to them, but talking to them probably takes longer. Sorry, ace, it's got nothing going for except your convenience." --Smasharoo

There's an old story about a man from a city walking along a road who comes upon a farmer riding a donkey. He spies the farmer yanking on the reins, then stepping down off the animal and whacking it on the head with a two-by-four. He rushes up to the farmer and asks, "Why are you hitting that donkey? Just speak to it quietly and treat it gently and I'm sure it'll do what you want!"

The farmer looked at the man and said, "That's exactly what I do. But I have to get its attention first."

Making children listen is only effective if they are willing to hear you.

Totem

Lol, to me, Smash? And you're basing that on your tremendous experience in child rearing? You've raised what, 10 kids? 18 if we include those orphans you rescued from that burning building? 135 children if we add the foster kids you helped put through college?

Relax, Sarge, no one really cares if you took the easy way out raising your kids.



To the uninitiated and untested child rearing is as simple as pressing Button A and getting Result B. Real life teaches an actual parent differently.

Only a fool throws away a viable option for raising a child effectively. And until you become a parent-- and not one by default, ie via Nexa's kid --you have no clue as to what you are talking about.


Sure, the magic of your wife having one fall out of her ****** who had your DNA goes far beyond what I could ever experience. The very fact that you share some genes with them qualifies you beyond any measure as a parent. This is why adoptive parents are so much worse for children. They have no concept of the massive knowledge gained by having ejaculated into the woman who bore one.


Let me put some perspective on this discussion. When I was young, 24 years old, and my two kids were little, we had by all accounts well behaved, mild mannered children. I, in my hubris, believed I had figured out the secret to parenting. I thought I could raise 20 kids on the basis of what I had seen to that point. One girl, one boy, I had it covered, come to me for all the answers.

Then, little by little, as they grew older, I recognised that one size does not fit all. And by the time they were teenagers very different approaches to parenting were required to make any impact on their lives and behavior at all.

I've had the joy and priviledge of raising two good, well adjusted children, despite my errors in parenting, job choice, living conditions, and discipline. I've had the priviledge of seeing a wonderful, creative, but headstrong daughter and a self driven, self policing, and intensely charismatic son grow up into adults who are ready to begin their own families any day now. But if they should ever come to me asking for parenting advice I will firmly and voraciously advocate spanking for defiant behavior, because nothing, nothing is more destructive to a child's maturity and growth than him believing he's the boss in a child/parent relationship.

Sure. How else would they know how to be properly submissive to other authority figures? ****, if you didn't physically strike them, they might grow into people with distinct identities that weren't molded by your Svengali like application of violence.


But you go on and tell us tales and give us the wisdom you've gleaned based on your vast experience in raising children. I'm all ears.


Sure, whatever makes you happy, man. You didn't care enough to find something other than hitting your kids to accomplish your parenting goals. End of story. If you can't deal with it, that's fine. You have to know, though, that the "you can't understand child psychology because you haven't impregnated a woman" just results in people laughing at you, right?

DDP

Totem

Edited, Aug 21st 2008 12:45pm by Totem

I'm certain that book you're penning on parenting will hit the best seller lists, Smash. I'll be sure to buy it when it comes out...

Why in the world would any parent need such a book? Any person that successfully copulated resulting in pregnancy is granted magical clairvoyance into the motivations and needs of children.


/rollseyes


Yeah, ace. It is worthy of that when you advocate that Osama Bin Laden is a vastly superior parent to Jeff Moyer. Or, yourself, I suppose. Tell me, does that magic only happen once, or is cumulative? Does the guy who sires 80 children know more than the guy who sires 8? Good stuff.


Lemme know when you've written a various exposes on space shuttle docking techniques, robotic brain surgery gameplans, and international diplomacy since these are merely extensions of parking your car in the garage, cutting your steak into cubes, and saying hello to the taxi driver from Haiti-- something you're now immnently qualified to task yourself with.

This is kind of your argument, isn't it, chief? Oh wait, sorry, I haven't jacked off on the space shuttle yet. Now I see where you're going.

Who couldn't use a little advice how to talk your teenager into behavior modification? I certainly could have! Obviously I missed class on the day they taught that at the local junior college. I mean, ****, talking???

Yeah, no kidding. The idea that it's possible to resolve conflict with children using the technique you would with adults is just crazy talk. In fact, I may just whack our realtor around a little if she has trouble finding us a house near Nexa's new job.

Spanking is not used to resolve conflict, it's used as a corrective measure for unacceptable behavior. A 7 year old doesn't necessarily remember what he was told last week, he definitely remembers getting a smack for trying to hang off of his ceiling fan. I generally use words and, if necessary, my rather commanding voice, it's usually enough. If my son purposely hurts one of the younger kids he gets a smack, he already knows he shouldn't do that and a smack is a reminder of why (it hurts).

Words are never more effective than experience for correcting behavior, but words should still be the preferred method. Corrective measures should fit the behavior and be based on the parents parenting style. Schools should not be handing out discipline, they should be advising the parents so the parents can handle it as they see fit.

Spanking is not used to resolve conflict, it's used as a corrective measure for unacceptable behavior. A 7 year old doesn't necessarily remember what he was told last week, he definitely remembers getting a smack for trying to hang off of his ceiling fan. I generally use words and, if necessary, my rather commanding voice, it's usually enough. If my son purposely hurts one of the younger kids he gets a smack, he already knows he shouldn't do that and a smack is a reminder of why (it hurts).

Yeah, you know what happens? He remembers you hit him. Not why.


Words are never more effective than experience for correcting behavior, but words should still be the preferred method.

False.


Corrective measures should fit the behavior and be based on the parents parenting style. Schools should not be handing out discipline, they should be advising the parents so the parents can handle it as they see fit.


So burning a kids eye out with a branding iron is cool if they were looking at **** and you caught them, right? So long as you think it fits?

Just making sure.

Wait, let me guess, when you hit your kid, it's fine, when I hit your kid it's a crime, and if someone else hits their kid harder than you would yours it might be a crime?

Just go ahead and tell your kids that the most violent person gets what they want. It'll save time.

Spanking a child is usually the product of:

a) A parent/carer losing their temper and resorting to violence
b) A parent/carer asserting their authority through violence, due to an inability to use reason
c) A parent/carer faced with unacceptable behaviour where reasoned alternatives have been exhausted and warnings given.

In this case, I use the term 'spank' as an open handed slap on the **** or leg, hard enough to inflict a shock of discomfort, and not physical injury.

I'd arue that option a is widespread, and b comes a close second.

There's a blurry line between b & c (what constitutes 'reasoned argument'), but when the kids were ickle and their behaviour was unacceptably violent or socially unacceptable, and warnings of taking away privelige (favoUrite toy etc) were ineffective, I'd explain that failure to behave would result in a smacked backside.

I recall one occasion when I fell for option a, and I regret it to this day. There were a few option c's in there and I don't have issues.

As for the OP, I would never ever share that right to anyone other than their mother. Certainly not a bloody teacher.