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Deal with Poland ruffles Russia's feathers.Follow

#1 Aug 15 2008 at 11:00 PM Rating: Default
Well @#%^. I didn't see that Joph had posted this in the Georgia vs Russia thread. Sorry.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/world/europe/16poland.html wrote:
WASHINGTON — The United States and Poland reached a long-stalled deal on Thursday to place an American missile defense base on Polish territory, in the strongest reaction so far to Russia’s military operation in Georgia.

Russia reacted angrily, saying that the move would worsen relations with the United States that have already been strained severely in the week since Russian troops entered separatist enclaves in Georgia, a close American ally. At a news conference on Friday, a senior Russian defense official, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, suggested that Poland was making itself a target by agreeing to host the anti-missile system. Such an action “cannot go unpunished,” he said.


I hadn't heard much (ok, practically nothing) about such negotiations with Poland until recently, but it's obvious the purpose of closing the deal now is to indirectly confront Russia's recent aggression in the region. However, what strikes me as odd is that Russia would go so far as to publicly declare the installation and operation of a missile defense system a punishable act. Are we staring down the barrel of another potential cold war era?

Quote:
Russia has long opposed the deal, saying the United States was violating post-cold-war agreements not to base its troops in former Soviet bloc states and devising a Trojan Horse system designed to counter Russia’s nuclear ******** not an attack by Iran or another adversary.

Stop-and-start negotiations over the arrangement that was sealed Thursday had been under way for almost two years, with the Polish government reluctant to press the deal in the face of strong opposition — and retaliatory threats — from Moscow.


Is Russia really willing to go to war over defense contracts by cooperative nations in response to it's recent aggression in the region? Do you think Poland will back out of the deal if pressured enough by Russia? How will this affect Russia's political influence in the region?

Edited, Aug 16th 2008 2:34am by BrownDuck
#2 Aug 15 2008 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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It's irresponsible of Washington to play this card when russian is so occupied with an internal war (Georgia vs Russia). There is no ******* reason that the united states needs to get involved in a war, either proxy or direct, with Russia again. It's not like the ******* Russians are monsters, nor the Georgians, and especially nor the poles. They're people trying to protect what might be a legitimate cry for mother from the non-separatists.

I mean sure, these wars are sure to have atrocities in them, as in all wars. That doesn't mean that we (the united states) has to thumb our noses at it while it's happening. It's just childish teasing... with severely non-childish potential consequences.
#3 Aug 15 2008 at 11:34 PM Rating: Decent
Poland...damn it Joph!
#4 Aug 15 2008 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I feel bad for poland. It's historically been invaded by so many ********* over the years that I"m honestly surprised that it still exists as a country.
#5 Aug 15 2008 at 11:52 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive wrote:
I feel bad for poland. It's historically been invaded by so many @#%^tards over the years that I"m honestly surprised that it still exists as a country.

It's the cockroach of nations!

Plus you can't deny the irresistability of the pierogi and the dumpling.


/represent

#6 Aug 16 2008 at 6:00 AM Rating: Good
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Overreact much?
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#8 Aug 16 2008 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive wrote:
I feel bad for poland. It's historically been invaded by so many @#%^tards over the years that I"m honestly surprised that it still exists as a country.


Afghanistan probably envies the quiet times that Poland has had.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#9 Aug 16 2008 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, Russia just thretened to nuke Poland. I guess the cold war, Round II has officially began.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24193291-401,00.html


Teh Commies wrote:

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike; 100 per cent," General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff of Russia's armed forces, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying.

He added that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons, if they in some way help them". General Nogovitsyn also said that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems.



I personally would have just karma camped it a bit, maybe muted it for a day ro two.

Edited, Aug 16th 2008 10:09pm by Kaolian
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#10 Aug 16 2008 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Welcome to the Cold War II. Start practicing hiding under your school desks, kids. Ivan, the Russian bear, is back.

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#11 Aug 16 2008 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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This is just a back up plan incase the war on terrorism doesn't pan out. A second cold war would keep the weapon productions going smoothly.


This is, sadly, most likely an true statement.
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#12 Aug 16 2008 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
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It it just me, or does it feel like "America's foes: The Greatest hits" recently.

Betting ****'s in 2010.
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#13 Aug 17 2008 at 2:03 AM Rating: Good
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The Georgian President is (was) as much a dictatorial ******* as Putin is. This is not the "goodies vs. baddies" scenario, it's the "brutal idiot who pisses off a country armed to the teeth vs. country armed to the teeth" scenario. Someone should get Bush an xbox so he can live out his fantasies without further hurting the world.

#14 Aug 17 2008 at 4:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't wait till Russia tries to bring Alaska back into the fold. Then things will get interesting!
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#15REDACTED, Posted: Aug 17 2008 at 5:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I hadn't heard much (ok, practically nothing) about such negotiations with Poland until recently, but it's obvious the purpose of closing the deal now is to indirectly confront Russia's recent aggression in the region. However, what strikes me as odd is that Russia would go so far as to publicly declare the installation and operation of a missile defense system a punishable act. Are we staring down the barrel of another potential cold war era?
#16 Aug 17 2008 at 7:36 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
you have it completly backwards.

most of our animosity with russia today is because of us unilaterly backing out of the nuclear disarmiment treaty we signed with them to cool down the cold war. even the georgia campaign is directly related to us walking away from that international agreement. georiga is just another spinn off result of us signing an agreement with them, then thumbing our noses at them when we didnt want to abide by it any more.

the deal with poland was in the works ever since a few other countries declined to allow us to use their soil to volate our treaty with russia in building a missle defense system. long before the whole georgia campaign. russia sees this missle defense system as the begining of a play for world dominance. we have clearly demonstraited we will walk away from any treaty we sign. we have clearly demonstraited our word is only as good as it is convienent for us to keep it.

we build a defense system, then start building more powerfull weapons, then walk away from all of our treaties and use big stick policy negotiations for our international transactions.

weather or not that is the intention, it is the message we are sending to the WORLD by building it and unilaterly walking away from a treaty we signed in good faith with russia. how do you think china is going to respond? by allowing n.korea to build nuclear weapons to create a buffer between us and them mabe?

poland isnt a response to georgia. georgia is a response to us backing out of our treaty, and poland is only a small part of that backing out.

our words means nothing. iraq has clearly demonstraited that the words of the international community means nothing to us.

we have become the most dangerous and threatening entity on the planet. georgia is just the freying of the edges of the tapistry that has kept us out of another world war since ww2. the tapistry being our word and good faith.

just another legacy of the bush addministraition and the republicans. the cold war was good for bussiness........no matter how many civilians get killed elsewhere. but by gosh they will stop those axis of evil gays from getting married.

the ignorance of the repubs is astounding.


Yes, that probably is the Russian view of things, and apparently the view of the blame America first lefty crowd. THIS is the reason I will never be a lefty. They always end up on the wrong side of the argument. Their hatred for America knows no bounds and they end up in bed with the terrorists and the communists of the world.

The reason America walked away? Simple. The russians were not keeping up their end of the treaty. While America was keeping their end of the treaty and reducing the total amount of nuclear weapons to 5,535, Russia still has 16,000.
#17 Aug 17 2008 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
Yeah, I don't buy that America kept to the treaty. Living this close to the home of the B-1s, sorry jack, I don't believe it.
#18 Aug 17 2008 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Yes, that probably is the Russian view of things, and apparently the view of the blame America first lefty crowd. THIS is the reason I will never be a lefty. They always end up on the wrong side of the argument. Their hatred for America knows no bounds and they end up in bed with the terrorists and the communists of the world.


I don't think that my hatred of america is all that much. Rather, I just hate you. You're picking on the wrong ******* lefty by going after shadowrealm. It's like a tortoise trying to maul a hermitcrab: ineffectual and ultimately retarded.
#19REDACTED, Posted: Aug 17 2008 at 1:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Of course you hate me. When the left is faced with real facts instead of "feel good" intentions all they have left is personal attacks. Your argument of "hating me" is a non factor and a joke in the realm of the argument first made.
#20REDACTED, Posted: Aug 17 2008 at 2:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You don't have to "buy" anything I say. The facts are out there for you to make your own decision, you just have to do the research.
#21REDACTED, Posted: Aug 17 2008 at 3:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think they have had enough of Russia. People around the world want to be free to make their own choices and its becoming a small world if you want to oppress your people.
#22 Aug 17 2008 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Of course you hate me. When the left is faced with real facts instead of "feel good" intentions all they have left is personal attacks.


There exist too few words in english to express my disdain for your self-righteous, regurgitated ******** talking points. You don't have facts; you don't have an argument; you don't have an objective perspective, and unless you've done some thesis on international communist relations (I'll eat a dog if you do) then you're in the exact same half-*** educated boat as the rest of us about the situation with the same half-*** article that only really shows the united states as a country of ignorant and shortsighted slack jaws with delusions of world conquest.

Quote:
You don't have to "buy" anything I say. The facts are out there for you to make your own decision, you just have to do the research.


When you're addressing katie in the same manner as a super liberal yuppie pinko commie you have lost touch with some threads of reality. She's actually pretty moderate compared to a lot of people here.
#23REDACTED, Posted: Aug 17 2008 at 4:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Here is your average lefty. You present nothing but personal attacks and a flame. Sit your A$$ down till you come up with an argument NOOB!
#24 Aug 17 2008 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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You've either confused or simply are incapable of recognizing an appraisal of your complete ******* lack of epistemic perspective as a personal attack.

This farce is over.
#25REDACTED, Posted: Aug 17 2008 at 5:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It was over when you posted, you just didn't know it. When you come up with something intelligent to say THEN post.
#26 Aug 17 2008 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
Boomsticker wrote:
Quote:
You've either confused or simply are incapable of recognizing an appraisal of your complete @#%^ing lack of epistemic perspective as a personal attack.

This farce is over.


It was over when you posted, you just didn't know it. When you come up with something intelligent to say THEN post.


You know, you do a pretty crappy Smash impression.
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