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After you've inflated your tyres.......Follow

#1 Aug 12 2008 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe try this out....


I mentioned a few days ago that a friend of mine had a electrolytic hydrogen generator fitted to his diesel truck, and then took off on a road trip to test it.....

Well he got back and after working out his distance and fuel and wotnot, he calculated aproximately a 20-25%% fuel saving!

Thats pretty dmn good i reckon.

He's a bit of a pikey too, so tho I've read some conflicting results for these things, i know for a fact that if he thought it was of no benefit he would be returning it for the refund he was promised if he wasn't happy with it.

The thing is home-made, and consists of a 500ml. mayonnaise jar, with a couple of large sstainless stell bolts poked thru the lid. They are attached to wires going into his wiring loom. Theres a couple of hoses with one-way valves....one to an existing hose that pressurises the jar, and another that enters the airintake before the turbo unit. It looks a bit like this.

About once every tankful or so of diesel, he fills the jar with distilled water, adds a spoonful of sodium bicarbonate, and thats it.

As soon as you turn the ignition on, the water and S.Bicarb start fizzing away like a goodun generating Hydrogen gas, wich is then added to the engine intake and off you go.

Its all mounted next to the wiper bottle using a bit of plastic stormwater downpipe. We reckon we could buy all the bits and make one for less than NZ$50, and the only mildly complicated bit would be wiring it so that it only switches on when the engine is on.

So...I reckon i might get one for myself. 25% savings has got to be a good thing....dontcha think?

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#2 Aug 12 2008 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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If you're talking about tyres. . . Here's my response
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#3 Aug 12 2008 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Cant see it nobster.. Stupid hospital blocks you-tube.
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"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#4 Aug 12 2008 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
LMAO Is that all you got?

That's your energy plan? Put water in our cars, when we can just drill for oil? I'm voting for McCain.


/sarcasm
#5 Aug 12 2008 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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he calculated aproximately a 20-25%% fuel saving!


Yeah, no, he's not.

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#6 Aug 12 2008 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
he's not.


Not what?
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#7 Aug 12 2008 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

he calculated aproximately a 20-25%% fuel saving!


Yeah, no, he's not.



Shhhhh... Placebo beats laws of physics every time, right? ;)
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#8 Aug 12 2008 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Good Lord.

Smash & gbaji teaming up to paint paulsol's rainbow grey? Smiley: dubious

Next thing you'll be telling him that the Prius doesn't do a bajillion miles per litre and the commercials are bullpoop. Smiley: nod
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#9 Aug 12 2008 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Smash & gbaji teaming up to paint paulsol's rainbow grey?


Yeah, ! Stop harshing on my mellow dudes......

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#10 Aug 12 2008 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
Quote:
Smash & gbaji teaming up to paint paulsol's rainbow grey?


Yeah, ! Stop harshing on my mellow dudes......

Dis? Dis from a Shrewsbury goi? Smiley: oyvey

You kiss yo momma wit dat Salopian mout' ?
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#11 Aug 12 2008 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Not what?


Not gaining energy from burning hydrogen converted by adding current (generated by burning diesel) to water and electrolytes. The idea that he's actually "burning" it at all in a diesel engine to any effect is unlikely as well.



Edited, Aug 12th 2008 6:14pm by Smasharoo
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#12 Aug 12 2008 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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So, when he normally gets about 460km to the tankful on a long run, and on this last run, he filled his tank 3 times and got about 550-570km per tankful, it had nothing to do with the hydrogen??

Cheers! I'll let him know that he must have driven downhill the whole way there and back.
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#13 Aug 12 2008 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
Quote:
he's not.


Not what?


He's not "calculating". He's "guestimating".

Certainly, routing a charge from the engine into a jar of water to generate hydrogen and then routing that back into the engine will add some extra power output to the drive chain, it's very unlikely that the gain you'd see would be much outside the margin of error of whatever measuring methodology you're using.

I don't really feel like calculating the maximum hydrogen output from a small jar of water (much less the generation rate), nor converting that into joules, nor calculating the efficiency loss due to haphazardly dropping this in an engine not specifically designed for it, but it just can't be that much.


A setup like that will give you a small power increase. Maybe. Fuel savings would be smaller still. Now. If you had a motor designed for this, with the injection system calibrated to assume a mixture of hydrogen added into the gas and using compression of the hydrogen, I could see getting some measurable improvement. But a kit like that?
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#14 Aug 12 2008 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
Based on anecdote, I have ruled out the possibility that his driving & braking style were modified when attempting to prove improved fuel consumption
You got us there ace.Smiley: clown

When my car was new-ish, I wanted to see what it would do in terms of fuel economy. I drove to Scotland and back at about 56mph and went easy on acceleration & deceleration.

Result was 715 miles on a tank.

Last week I thrashed the motor around winding country lanes and emptied a tank in less than 480 miles.

Dr Science says you suck.

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#15 Aug 12 2008 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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So, when he normally gets about 460km to the tankful on a long run, and on this last run, he filled his tank 3 times and got about 550-570km per tankful, it had nothing to do with the hydrogen??


Correct. Absolutely nothing.

Think it through for two seconds. Were it really possible to get more energy from hydrogen generated by passing current through water than it took to free it from the water, don't you think someone would have caught on and build generators for, oh I don't know...SHIPS? You know, the things that sit on massive pools of pre-salinated water?

Do you see what I'm getting at? You use electricity to turn water into H2 an O. Then you burn the H2 with.... O. Which makes...water. If you were gaining energy from the burning, you could use the same molecule of water and power anything for an infinite amount of time?

Can you see how that may just not be what's happening here?

Don't let him sell you anything. (Especially a caravan, or a bare knuckled boxing match)
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#16 Aug 12 2008 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
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A setup like that will give you a small power increase.


Yeah, no. Christ. Burning Hydrogen you free from water turns it back into water at a 1 to 1 rate. You can never, ever, gain *any* energy at all doing so.

****, kids, 8th grade Chemistry.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#17 Aug 12 2008 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Don't let him sell you anything.


He's coming over tommorrow to resurface my driveway. Should I cancel??
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#18 Aug 12 2008 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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He's coming over tommorrow to resurface my driveway. Should I cancel??


I actually know someone who had gypsies paint her driveway and demand payment. She was a Judge. Poor choice of mark.



____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#19 Aug 12 2008 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:


He's coming over tommorrow to resurface my driveway. Should I cancel??


I actually know someone who had gypsies paint her driveway and demand payment. She was a Judge. Poor choice of mark.





I let rappers shine my boots in Chicago. $50 is a small price to pay for that kind of entertainment and the boots *were* really clean.

Nexa
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― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#20 Aug 12 2008 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:


He's coming over tommorrow to resurface my driveway. Should I cancel??


I actually know someone who had gypsies paint her driveway and demand payment. She was a Judge. Poor choice of mark.





My bulgarian friend hates gypsies. Calling someone a gypsy is about as big of an insult as possible to him. I don't know the Bulgarian-Gypsy details behind all that...
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#21 Aug 12 2008 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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My bulgarian friend hates gypsies. Calling someone a gypsy is about as big of an insult as possible to him. I don't know the Bulgarian-Gypsy details behind all that...


Clearly he never had one come get the squeak out of his door.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 Aug 12 2008 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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12,065 posts
Smasharoo wrote:


My bulgarian friend hates gypsies. Calling someone a gypsy is about as big of an insult as possible to him. I don't know the Bulgarian-Gypsy details behind all that...


Clearly he never had one come get the squeak out of his door.



/swoon.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#23 Aug 12 2008 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
It would be easy to calculate the energy from the hydrogen gas and just assume it all went perfectly into the car show that it is far less then 25% of the fuel he normally uses.
#24 Aug 12 2008 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

A setup like that will give you a small power increase.


Yeah, no. Christ. Burning Hydrogen you free from water turns it back into water at a 1 to 1 rate. You can never, ever, gain *any* energy at all doing so.

@#%^, kids, 8th grade Chemistry.


You're correct. You don't gain energy, but you can reduce the loss of energy. Specifically, the electrical energy generated by your internal combustion motor is mostly lost if it's not used. It's constantly charging your battery, and your alternator modifies the amount of charge to meet the draw on the electrical system. Does your car get worse gas mileage if you're running the radio? Or if you have your lights on? No, it doesn't. Ok. It does, but by such a tiny amount that it's not worth mentioning. Generating electrical power is a byproduct of operating an internal combustion engine. It's not completely "free", but given how motors are constructed and how the electrical system on your car works, you're paying basically the same cost in mechanical energy regardless of how much electrical energy you draw from the system.


If he was converting the water into hydrogen and then converting the hydrogen back into electrical power, you'd be absolutely correct. There would always be a net negative in that system. But in this case, he's tapping into electrical energy that he's basically already paid for and using it to convert water into hydrogen. If he burns that, it's a net gain. A *tiny* net gain, but clearly it will increase the total energy produced on a single cylinder stroke. Physics and all that.

The real issue is just how little that will actually help in terms of mechanical energy produced. The amount of relatively "free" electricity generated from the cars electrical system just can't possibly generate enough hydrogen over time to add significantly to the motor's mechanical energy output. A compression system would give each stroke more power, and if the engine was tuned/designed for this, that would result in less gas consumed, but you can't generate enough hydrogen to compress using that system. You'd need a much larger tank.

In theory if you designed your system to generate and compress hydrogen while the engine was at low RPM (idling/coasting), and then only inject it into the engine when at high RPM (accelerating), you might be able to get a somewhat measurable benefit. But the idea that an add-on kit is going to generate that much savings? Oh. And even then, it's not that great, since internal combustion engines are less efficient at low RPMs than high. You're going to see a savings versus not doing anything, but again, it's primarily because you're reducing your lost energy, not really adding extra energy.
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#25 Aug 12 2008 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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I see there is some confusion about the terms 'Gypsy' and 'pikey'.

A gypsy is - Rom nomad. Sometimes considered a derogatory term.

A pikey is - not a racial group, the term is used to describe anyone who lives in a caravan or shares the same values and "culture" of "the travelling community", and whose main sources of income are as follows:

Stealing cars, flogging roses in pubs for "childrens' charities", nicking lead off roofs, burgling garden sheds, blagging entry to old peoples house to rob them, doing dodgy tarmac jobs ("we've got some black stuff left over from a job up the road"), sometimes with mint imperials used as a substitute for white chippings, or, reportedly, using snow to lay slabs on when the sand ran out, stealing your ******** if they weren't in a bag and anything else that's not nailed down and anything that is nailed down but will fit in the back of an untaxed Transit when nobody's looking.


Lets keep our terminology accurate please.
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#26 Aug 12 2008 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby's dictionary is simpler:

Pikey = Move away from the automobile
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