Let's say I want to buy one of these new fancy shmancy electric cars that are coming out.
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
And would the average employer pay for the electricity when employees need to plug in their cars at work?
I see a potential for someone to start selling products to bootleg electricity from your nearby neighbor and/or local business...
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Electric Car MPG?Follow
According to the Aptera website, you'll get about 300 mph on the hybrid version and a bajillion mpg on the all electric type. Looks cool too, although I'd perfer the very sexy Tesla being made in SF.
Totem
Totem
I'd perfer the very sexy Tesla being made in SF.
Buddy bought one. I punched him in the balls and told him I'd do it again if he wanted to throw away another $100k
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bubspeed wrote:
And would the average employer pay for the electricity when employees need to plug in their cars at work?
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
How does he like his Tesla, Smash? Granted, 100 grr would buy a lot of gasoline, but it's a sweet looking sled in that Lotus body. Are they even delivering them yet or has he just purchased the option? And what color did he choose?
If I had an extra 1/10th of a million cash laying around in my spare change drawer I'd be tempted to get one just to watch Ed Bagley Jr. turn a very plant-like green from enviromental envy.
Totem
If I had an extra 1/10th of a million cash laying around in my spare change drawer I'd be tempted to get one just to watch Ed Bagley Jr. turn a very plant-like green from enviromental envy.
Totem
How does he like his Tesla, Smash?
Doesn't have it yet. I've seen like 100 pictures of it, though, and heard how it'll go from 0 to 60 in four seconds as many times.
I keep asking him how it'll handle on Boston streets in 9 inches of salty slush.
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They're hamster powered.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Ooooo, the repair/maintenance facilities are only supposed to be located on the West coast. He's planning on using it out in Boston? Prolly not a good idea unless he moonlights as an electrician on the side...
Totem
Totem
Prolly not a good idea unless he moonlights as an electrician on the side...
He's a corporate lawyer, they're only allowed to moonlight as douchebags.
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bubspeed wrote:
Let's say I want to buy one of these new fancy shmancy electric cars that are coming out.
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
As for the fuel efficiency, as I recall cars are under 1% efficient (let's call it 1%) and power plants are about 50%, however about half is lost in transmission so it's about 25 times more efficient.
So if the power company is buying gasoline (they aren't) and paying the same price you would at the pump (they don't) you pay about 25 times less on your electricity bill then if you buy the gas yourself.
There are a couple complicating factors I'm leaving out, but it's probably right to within a factor of 2.
yossarian wrote:
bubspeed wrote:
Let's say I want to buy one of these new fancy shmancy electric cars that are coming out.
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
As for the fuel efficiency, as I recall cars are under 1% efficient (let's call it 1%) and power plants are about 50%, however about half is lost in transmission so it's about 25 times more efficient.
So if the power company is buying gasoline (they aren't) and paying the same price you would at the pump (they don't) you pay about 25 times less on your electricity bill then if you buy the gas yourself.
There are a couple complicating factors I'm leaving out, but it's probably right to within a factor of 2.
There's more then a couple factors you're leaving out. Attempting to calculate efficiency values is vastly more complicated and honestly completely unnecessary in this case. What matters to the consumer at the end of the day is miles/dollar and cost/year of different types of vehicles. Looking at efficiency values alone is worthless since it doesn't tell me anything about cost. A nuclear powered car might be amazingly efficient, but would presumably cost vastly more "per mile" of driving then one powered by pretty much anything else.
The viability of alternative vehicles isn't just in the efficiency, but the utility and overall cost as a vehicle. These aren't experiments at some science fair. People actually use their vehicles. No amount of efficiency matters if I can't do what I need to do with the result. Full electric cars will not replace some form of internal combustion engine vehicle (hybrid or not) until someone comes up with an electric motor and battery system that can power said vehicle with similar operational characteristics to todays vehicles for somewhere between 800 to 1000 miles per charge. Because that's the approximate upper bounds of how far someone may wish to drive a car in a single day, so that's what you need to build to get any significant amount of the market. Guess what? We're nowhere close...
Hybrids are nice. But most of the hybrids on the road today don't get more then 10-20% better dollar/mile rates then normal gasoline powered engines. When you then calculate the extra cost for the vehicle and the cost to replace/maintain the battery system over a 3-5 year timespan, the total cost is actually higher. Not lower. The trade off with most hybrids is that you'll use maybe 20% less gasoline over time, but produce extra pollutants in the form of the batteries themselves. And you'll pay something around 5-8k more over a 5 year period to do it. It's really a wash IMO...
The benefits of an electric car only appear when it's full electric (or very close to full electric). And we have a significant amount of additional research to go on that. Until then, full electric cars are pretty much a neat hobby. Now, if only someone would propose that we really focus on more powerful electric motors and batteries that could hold more charge, we might just get where we need to go...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
There's more then a couple factors you're leaving out. Attempting to calculate efficiency values is vastly more complicated and I don't even vaguely understand it.
We know, Cap, we know.
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#14REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 07 2008 at 6:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) you dont have to guess, or worry about factors. its already been done for you. look up the chevy volt. based on the cost of todays energy it gets about 2 cents a mile, vs 13 cents a mile for hybrids and around 20 cents a mile for an average american car (20mpg).
Except, shadow, that oil still is, dollar-to-dollar, the cheapest form of energy out there, despite what your wallet says when you fill up your car. And realistically, there is no shortage, nor is there a looming disaster ahead based on diminishing stockpiles for the long term.
The issue right now is refinement, not production. Most oil experts believe that the price per barrel should be around $50. However, between the thin margins of surplus oil and the comparatively scarce lack of refinement facilities, and the burgeoning field of speculation in paper barrels rather than wet barrels on the open market, prices have soared, leaving us with higher fuel/energy prices.
Make no mistake, even if we made a wholesale switch to electricity, the consumer will still pay for it-- and in amounts that the market will bear. It's not like the elecetric companies will suddenly begin giving the stuff away for free.
In the meantime, sneak over to your neighbor's house and plug that Volt you'll be buying into his outlet. Then the energy costs are zero!
Totem
The issue right now is refinement, not production. Most oil experts believe that the price per barrel should be around $50. However, between the thin margins of surplus oil and the comparatively scarce lack of refinement facilities, and the burgeoning field of speculation in paper barrels rather than wet barrels on the open market, prices have soared, leaving us with higher fuel/energy prices.
Make no mistake, even if we made a wholesale switch to electricity, the consumer will still pay for it-- and in amounts that the market will bear. It's not like the elecetric companies will suddenly begin giving the stuff away for free.
In the meantime, sneak over to your neighbor's house and plug that Volt you'll be buying into his outlet. Then the energy costs are zero!
Totem
Except, shadow, that oil still is, dollar-to-dollar, the cheapest form of energy out there, despite what your wallet says when you fill up your car.
Yeah, not close. Nat Gas powered cars run at an equivalent of about $1.75 a gallon. Did you mean "fossil fuels" by "oil" maybe?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
No, I meant oil. Semantics aside, at least in the sense that they are forms of energy derived from the same basic stuff: decayed plants, dinosaurs, and the like. Natural gas, heavy, light, sweet-- they all come out of the ground in the same spot and from the same rigs. That they either break down into different products or they come out in gaseous form is not material to the discussion since they all need drilling-- that thing shadow is railing against.
Totem
Totem
Quote:
Let's say I want to buy one of these new fancy shmancy electric cars that are coming out.
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
And would the average employer pay for the electricity when employees need to plug in their cars at work?
I see a potential for someone to start selling products to bootleg electricity from your nearby neighbor and/or local business...
What is the equivalent MPG that you get with these things? Sort of a gas to electric conversion factor... How much would the average car add to our electric bill every month?
And would the average employer pay for the electricity when employees need to plug in their cars at work?
I see a potential for someone to start selling products to bootleg electricity from your nearby neighbor and/or local business...
As it sits right now if you can afford one you are not to worried about paying for the cost of running it whether its a hybred or full electric. Your average family out there working 2 or 3 jobs just to survive will never be able to afford 60-100k for a car.
Nearly every facet of American life depends on oil and without it living in America is going to get very expensive. Those just making it now will probably end up living in the streets. So much for the Dems being for the little people.
oil is still dirt cheap as an energy source compared to alternatives right now. the price is currently artifically inflated
No, it really isn't.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Boomsticker wrote:
Nearly every facet of American life depends on oil
Rhetoric aside, nearly every facet doesn't even have to touch oil. This is pretty much a hard on for consumers and a death kneal for Big Oil.
I've long been an advocate of Solar Power. That's the future.
Rhetoric aside, nearly every facet doesn't even have to touch oil.
Hi. Anything that uses any plastic, at all, is dependent on oil. Including every available solar power system on the planet.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Smasharoo wrote:
Hi. Anything that uses any plastic, at all, is dependent on oil. Including every available solar power system on the planet.
Well aware. But considering we are talking about energy (travel, heating, that sort of thing) I didn't find it important to the conversation.
Thanks.
Edited, Aug 7th 2008 12:02pm by Kaelesh
Quote:
Rhetoric aside, nearly every facet doesn't even have to touch oil. This is pretty much a hard on for consumers and a death kneal for Big Oil.
I've long been an advocate of Solar Power. That's the future.
Whatever. I can't argue with people that refuse to accept certain facts and think things through. I could run it all down for you but I see no point. It would just be a waste of my time.
Boomsticker wrote:
Whatever. I can't argue with people that refuse to accept certain facts and think things through. I could run it all down for you but I see no point. It would just be a waste of my time.
You fucking post the facts next time and maybe I'll consider them.
Whatever. I can't argue with people that refuse to accept certain facts and think things through. I could run it all down for you
No, you couldn't, you fucking ignorant clown. I don't know what sort of crazy witchcraft you're using to find the right keys on the keyboard, but there isn't anything you could "run down" with the possible exception of how to drool on yourself.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
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