Ol' Mr. Inexperienced is starting to waffle on the Iraq thing. He claims he hasn't changed his position on getting the troops out of country, but that was only after the furor that followed him saying he was going to reevaluate his stance upon being sworn into office.
Niiiiiice. It didn't take long for him to become just another politician. I guess what he means by "change we can believe in," is we're just changing one politicians for another one, just with a darker tan.
Heh, it serves him right for being a typical Lefty during the primary season, only to try to pass himself off as being centrist during the general election. The Dem faithful are suckers for actually believing this guy is supposed to be any different from the rest of his ilk.
Totem
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Flip-floppin' HusseinFollow
Totem wrote:
believing this guy is supposed to be any different from the rest of his ilk.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#3REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 05 2008 at 7:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wasnt a flip flop. its just a pissing contest over semantics just like the kind we see here every time gbaji decides to enlighten us with is new world order views.
I never understood why people got angsty about politician changing their minds.
Situations change, circumstances often dictate that what was the best policy 6 months ago is not necessarily the best policy now or in 12 months time.
I would want a leader that deals with the reality of a situation rather than stick with policies that where made based on a situation that no longer exsists.
Situations change, circumstances often dictate that what was the best policy 6 months ago is not necessarily the best policy now or in 12 months time.
I would want a leader that deals with the reality of a situation rather than stick with policies that where made based on a situation that no longer exsists.
#5REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 05 2008 at 8:07 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) its not the people. most of them have already made up theri mind. its just a pissing contest over semantics for the far left and the far right in a battle over a few fence sitters. the majority of the people have already made their decision one way or another and will only acknoledge the information they hear that supports their decision dismissing everything else as "politics".
Quote:
I never understood why people got angsty about politician changing their minds.
How about when those politicians change their mind but act like that is what they believed in to begin with? But hey, even if we don't count this one there are still plenty of lies from Obama.. well that or he has a terrible memory and bad judgement, your call.
Quote:
well that or he has a terrible memory and bad judgement, your call.
You realize, of course, that this discription applies to Old Man McCain as well.
As for Flip-Flopping, here's some of McCains:
* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intoleranceâ€, then actively went for his endorsement when he ran for President again.
* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but later changed his mind.
* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt & spending “dirty money†to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. This time around, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
* McCain supported a major Campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. Then he ran for President & abandoned his own legislation.
* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.
* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture and then changed his mind.
* McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and won’t back the same provision he sponsored just a few years ago.
* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
* He’s also been both for and against overturning Roe v. Wade.
Edited, Jul 5th 2008 4:17pm by Omegavegeta
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
"Situations change, circumstances often dictate that what was the best policy 6 months ago is not necessarily the best policy now or in 12 months time." --Tarv
Except that Oblackman has emphatically stated he will unequivocally get the troops out of Iraq in the 16 months following his inauguration, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Period. Fini. Consider it done.
That kind of talk means that it is a core issue on which a politician has hung his hat. And my thinking is he is a fool for painting himself into a corner like that. All this however is grist for the mill since it has been the contention of the US military that by this fall the Iraqi government should be getting close to standing on its own two feet-- this in stark contrast to the shrill brayings of the Left decrying the "Vietnam-like quagmire" we are supposedly engaged in. Mark my words, when spring rolls around and the focus on Iraq shifts to Afganistan because the conflict is winding down just as predicted, the Left will trumpet the triumph of their wisdom of leaving the theater in victory just as promised despite giving it everything they had to ***** our chances for success in Iraq.
Just remember, you heard it here first. In fact, I predict some Lefty will immediately come on this board and attempt to grab credit for this whole thing in advance.
Totem
Except that Oblackman has emphatically stated he will unequivocally get the troops out of Iraq in the 16 months following his inauguration, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Period. Fini. Consider it done.
That kind of talk means that it is a core issue on which a politician has hung his hat. And my thinking is he is a fool for painting himself into a corner like that. All this however is grist for the mill since it has been the contention of the US military that by this fall the Iraqi government should be getting close to standing on its own two feet-- this in stark contrast to the shrill brayings of the Left decrying the "Vietnam-like quagmire" we are supposedly engaged in. Mark my words, when spring rolls around and the focus on Iraq shifts to Afganistan because the conflict is winding down just as predicted, the Left will trumpet the triumph of their wisdom of leaving the theater in victory just as promised despite giving it everything they had to ***** our chances for success in Iraq.
Just remember, you heard it here first. In fact, I predict some Lefty will immediately come on this board and attempt to grab credit for this whole thing in advance.
Totem
Lol, I love it. Shadowrelm uses a capital H when he talks about this nebulous and amorphous "hope" that St. Barry Hussein, patron saint of the hopelessly addled, refers to, as if it were some kind of idyllic concept deserving of reverence or worship.
/guffaw
Pleeeease, my sides are hurting here. Stop it! lololololol.... What, do angelic choirs suddenly begin singing when St. Hussein opens his mouth? Does a beam of sunlight burst through the overcast to annoint his head with otherworldly light? Too funny. Tears, Jerry, tears.
Totem
/guffaw
Pleeeease, my sides are hurting here. Stop it! lololololol.... What, do angelic choirs suddenly begin singing when St. Hussein opens his mouth? Does a beam of sunlight burst through the overcast to annoint his head with otherworldly light? Too funny. Tears, Jerry, tears.
Totem
Again, let's be very clear here. I don't expect a pol's mind to remain unchanged about many things. But I do expect a pol to remain true to his core promises. And St. Barry, patron saint of the hopelessly naive and young, and made it abundantly clear that Iraq is a core promise. But as November draws near and yanking our troops out of Iraq too soon might cause an utter collapse of the near-at-hand completion of our work in Iraq, Barack's waffling shows how easy it is to make promises on the campaign trail to adoring groupies, errrrr, political followers yet be faced with reality once reality sets in.
And make no mistake about it, reality is setting in for ol' Barry Hussein. And inexperienced pol he is, he just showed his hand when he attempted to go back on a core promise to the party faithful. And my oh my, listen to those howls of protest! See how quickly he ran back to safety of the Left, when their wet smooches made him feel all warm and fuzzy again-- for the moment. Because whether he likes it or not, reality is staring at him in the face and his promises are just salivating at the chance to bite him on his black a$$.
He's a rookie. You guys should just admit it and get past it. Then you can say, "Oh well, he's new at this presidential/executive decision making business. Give him a break." But by claiming he's some wunderkind you set him up for certain failure.
Totem
And make no mistake about it, reality is setting in for ol' Barry Hussein. And inexperienced pol he is, he just showed his hand when he attempted to go back on a core promise to the party faithful. And my oh my, listen to those howls of protest! See how quickly he ran back to safety of the Left, when their wet smooches made him feel all warm and fuzzy again-- for the moment. Because whether he likes it or not, reality is staring at him in the face and his promises are just salivating at the chance to bite him on his black a$$.
He's a rookie. You guys should just admit it and get past it. Then you can say, "Oh well, he's new at this presidential/executive decision making business. Give him a break." But by claiming he's some wunderkind you set him up for certain failure.
Totem
Totem wrote:
by claiming he's some wunderkind you set him up for certain failure.
It's really a big ole boring strawman from the Right.
As for myself, I've given what I'd like to happen in Iraq several times. If Obama decides that he needs to extend it past 16 months (I'm assuming you have some sort of cite for this, but I'm not saying it can't be true), it's still closer to what I want than McCain's stance.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
since it has been the contention of the US military that by this fall the Iraqi government should be getting close to standing on its own two feet
Yes, we've heard this rhetoric before, at least a few hundred times. Remember last year when "victory" was at hand?
Jophiel wrote:
Totem wrote:
by claiming he's some wunderkind you set him up for certain failure.
It's really a big ole boring strawman from the Right.
As for myself, I've given what I'd like to happen in Iraq several times. If Obama decides that he needs to extend it past 16 months (I'm assuming you have some sort of cite for this, but I'm not saying it can't be true), it's still closer to what I want than McCain's stance.
"Okay, it'll take me 18 months vs. 100 years."
He is new at this. What's McCain's excuse?
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
NaughtyWord wrote:
Remember last year when "victory" was at hand?
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Violence is at a 4 year low, the surge troops are now gone from Iraq, the Iraqi military has taken over large portions of oversight in Sadr City and Basra. The list goes on and on. And yes, this is precisely what was planned and mapped out long ago. No doubt there have been delays and difficult problems, but the end product is looking more and more attainable.
The Obama issue is something that occured on Thursday/early Friday. He made an offhand comment about seeing what progress was occuring in Iraq and how his administration would respond come January. The left-Left immediately became worried he was softening his stance on the war and the Right immediately claimed he was waffling on hard promises. So Obama came out with a statement on Friday that his position had not changed, but was simply ruminating about possibilities and alternatives, but his position had nnot changed. Furthermore, he said he would call the Joint Chiefs in on his first day in office and give them "a new mission." He would direct them to leave Iraq most expeditiously in a manner which kept our trrops safe.
Totem
Edit for spelling "surge" "dirge," which might have been appropriate had things turned out like the Lefties predicted.
Edited, Jul 6th 2008 10:59am by Totem
The Obama issue is something that occured on Thursday/early Friday. He made an offhand comment about seeing what progress was occuring in Iraq and how his administration would respond come January. The left-Left immediately became worried he was softening his stance on the war and the Right immediately claimed he was waffling on hard promises. So Obama came out with a statement on Friday that his position had not changed, but was simply ruminating about possibilities and alternatives, but his position had nnot changed. Furthermore, he said he would call the Joint Chiefs in on his first day in office and give them "a new mission." He would direct them to leave Iraq most expeditiously in a manner which kept our trrops safe.
Totem
Edit for spelling "surge" "dirge," which might have been appropriate had things turned out like the Lefties predicted.
Edited, Jul 6th 2008 10:59am by Totem
See? Omega gets it. And you're right-- McCain has no excuse.
Totem
Totem
Totem wrote:
The Obama issue is something that occured on Thursday/early Friday. He made an offhand comment about seeing what progress was occuring in Iraq and how his administration would respond come January. The left-Left immediately became worried he was softening his stance on the war and the Right immediately claimed he was waffling on hard promises. So Obama came out with a statement on Friday that his position had not changed, but was simply ruminating about possibilities and alternatives, but his position had nnot changed.
"Flip-flopping" is saying "I think we need to leave them in Iraq for as long 'as it takes'", not "Situations might demand that we withdraw over 19 months rather than 16".
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#19REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 06 2008 at 8:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) that St. Barry Hussein, patron saint of the hopelessly addled, refers to, as if it were some kind of idyllic concept deserving of reverence or worship.
Sheep don't really dig cars, regardless of color.
Also, herding them into separate flocks is utterly inefficient. You're way better off herding them all into one area and then grabbing the ones you want your hands on individually. And oh yeah, my sheep type better than you.
Also, herding them into separate flocks is utterly inefficient. You're way better off herding them all into one area and then grabbing the ones you want your hands on individually. And oh yeah, my sheep type better than you.
Totem wrote:
Violence is at a 4 year low, the surge troops are now gone from Iraq, the Iraqi military has taken over large portions of oversight in Sadr City and Basra. The list goes on and on. And yes, this is precisely what was planned and mapped out long ago. No doubt there have been delays and difficult problems, but the end product is looking more and more attainable.
Again, this has all been said before numerous times. It's always "We're so close to victory" and so on, it is my speculation that these "reports of victory" are nothing more than sad attempts to bolster a positive opinion about this war that is gaining unpopularity as the economy continues to nose dive.
Quote:
Violence is at a 4 year low, the surge troops are now gone from Iraq, the Iraqi military has taken over large portions of oversight in Sadr City and Basra.
knoxsouthy wrote:
Unless your name is W. Then the media, along with the Dems, have nothing more to say than "Bush lied people died"
Quote:
Obama has flat out said he would not lift the moratorium on offshore drilling. We're not talking anwr here, just offshore drilling. But do we hear about this in the media?
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Had Bush 'flip-flopped' when it was clear how badly he'd messed up, well we might not be in the mess we're in.
I ignore claims of 'flip-flopping' - it can be construed from just about any political statement by any candidate or leader and is about as meaningful as calling someone a poopy-face.
I ignore claims of 'flip-flopping' - it can be construed from just about any political statement by any candidate or leader and is about as meaningful as calling someone a poopy-face.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
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