So I just watched Frontline. It was about the increasing diagnosis of children as bi-polar and the resulting medicating of them off label with anti-psychotics, lithium, etc.
While I've argued before that these medications have real efficacy for a great many people, I'm largely of the opinion at this point that my kid would have to be pretty much stabbing me daily for me to go that route.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Anything can be medicalised.
Welcome to my world.
Welcome to my world.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Happily I am, thus far, in a position where I can say I agree with you, Smash. It would have to be pretty bad for me to go the medication route. I don't judge anyone for doing it though, because I can't imagine how bad it has been for some people.
Hell, I'm still pissed that my mom had me on medication for epilepsy when I was a kid, though I don't have epilepsy....
Hell, I'm still pissed that my mom had me on medication for epilepsy when I was a kid, though I don't have epilepsy....
What's bred in the bone will not out of the flesh.
I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was younger and went on anti-psychotics for it for a good 8 years or so, but my mother did fight tooth and nail to avoid that route for years.
Hard to say how helpful it was. I don't take anything today and I haven't experienced symptoms as I did as a child in at least 3 years. I'm leery of wantonly diagnosing people with psychological disorders; disorders are nothing more than names used to abbreviate a class of similar behaviors for the sake of simplicity. All that is well and good and allows doctors to treat their patients more efficiently simply based on induction.
But you can always get that effect where you diagnose a child with something and he makes it such a large part of his identity that he starts to hold himself accountable to the concept such that the idea begins to rule his life. Someone might tell me "oh i'm bipolar (or add, or has asperger's)" as if that simple diagnosis can account for every problem and experience of that person's life, and that's just silly.
Hard to say how helpful it was. I don't take anything today and I haven't experienced symptoms as I did as a child in at least 3 years. I'm leery of wantonly diagnosing people with psychological disorders; disorders are nothing more than names used to abbreviate a class of similar behaviors for the sake of simplicity. All that is well and good and allows doctors to treat their patients more efficiently simply based on induction.
But you can always get that effect where you diagnose a child with something and he makes it such a large part of his identity that he starts to hold himself accountable to the concept such that the idea begins to rule his life. Someone might tell me "oh i'm bipolar (or add, or has asperger's)" as if that simple diagnosis can account for every problem and experience of that person's life, and that's just silly.
I didn't come into being a parent the usual way, but I will say this: it's a consistent, never ending, everlasting vigil. Some people just don't have the endurance, and you can't expect a four-year-old to come up to you and say "Mommy, I'm not getting the support I need here. You're kind of letting me down." They act out in the only way they know how, and you might not even know your kid well enough to know that they're trying to send you a message.
Smasharoo wrote:
While I've argued before that these medications have real efficacy for a great many people, I'm largely of the opinion at this point that my kid would have to be pretty much stabbing me daily for me to go that route.
Agreed.
Psychotropics are wonderful things, but I am wary of their use when the brain is a plastic as it is in childhood.
For the same reason, I am wary of pronouncing a diagnosis on someone so young... especially when I look at a list of symptoms for, say, childhood bipolar disorder, and it describes me at that age as well as most children I've known. (And for the record, as an adult I can't meet the diagnostic criteria for bipolar disorder no matter how far I stretch the truth.) To my mind, diagnosing a 4-year-old as bipolar is akin to diagnosing a newborn with alexia.
Smasharoo wrote:
So I just watched Frontline. It was about the increasing diagnosis of children as bi-polar and the resulting medicating of them off label with anti-psychotics, lithium, etc.
While I've argued before that these medications have real efficacy for a great many people, I'm largely of the opinion at this point that my kid would have to be pretty much stabbing me daily for me to go that route.
While I've argued before that these medications have real efficacy for a great many people, I'm largely of the opinion at this point that my kid would have to be pretty much stabbing me daily for me to go that route.
This trend where every child is apparently bipolar is disturbing, especially as it diminishes the impact and services available of those small percentage of children that are seriously mentally ill at a young age. Childhood Bipolar disorder, btw, are usually people whose behavior cannot be managed without medication and it is currently overdiagnosed which does not mean that the diagnosis itself is invalid(which might show up in the DSM-V--it's pretty controversial but I've met a few people working on that volume that have talked about possibly including it).
The only thing that complicates the whole picture, and I've heard this from people who work on the major NIMH study in about 20 hospitals where they are trying to prevent people with schizophrenia from having their first break, is that early diagnosis of mood instability and introduction of certain anti-psychotic medications may be having an appreciable effect on preventing the first break (on certain people whose profile would be similar to someone who would eventually develop schizophrenia). I know this from studying early indications of schizophrenia (being interested b/c my brother has the condition and began hallucinating at around 13) and for a large percentage of people, certain cognitive deficits and emotional instability is prevalent at a young age. However, it's not an exact science, still remaining a dilemma since schizophrenia, more than most other major mental illness, has catastrophic effects on someone's future development.
And in case you are wondering the relationship, a child with severe mood instability as a child (like truly meeting the criteria) is at more risk of developing schizophrenia than adult bipolar disorder, which seems to be unrelated.
Edited, Apr 10th 2008 10:32am by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
more lazy teachers and parents, richer pharmaceutical companies and Drs/hospitals.
I don't think I've ever met a 4-year old, whose personality, if transferred onto an adult, couldn't easily be diagnosed as bi-polar. I mean christ they'll lay down on the floor of the grocery store and kick and pound and scream and cry. Give um a popcicle and they'll be smiling and laughing 20 seconds later.
Are these diagnoses being based on behavior or can they actually measure some kind of chemical imbalance?
edited to include punctuation
Edited, Apr 10th 2008 5:56pm by Elinda
Are these diagnoses being based on behavior or can they actually measure some kind of chemical imbalance?
edited to include punctuation
Edited, Apr 10th 2008 5:56pm by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
I don't think I've ever met a 4-year old, who's personality if transferred onto an adult couldn't easily be diagnosed as bi-polar. I mean christ they'll lay down on the floor of the grocery store and kick and pound and scream and cry. Give um a popcicle and they'll be smiling and laughing 20 seconds later.
Are these diagnoses being based on behavior or can they actually measure some kind of chemical imbalance?
Are these diagnoses being based on behavior or can they actually measure some kind of chemical imbalance?
It's always observation for any mental illness. I totally get what you mean but if you saw seriously emotionally disturbed children--who are above and beyond the kids that are generally diagnosed--it would seem abnormal. Childhood bipolar disorder, btw, is actually unrelated to Adult Bipolar D/o or rather, it is as similar as Type I and Type II diabetes, for example.
It's interesting since there is so much abuse of this diagnosis and overmedication. When I've seen experts on the disorder speak, they will generally say that diagnosing a young child is exceedingly rare. A four year old might literally be diagnosed every few years.
It's the rank and file psychiatrists that are arbitrarily prescribing meds to very young children, IIRC. And the fact that with the lack of child psychiatrists in this country, more and more PCPs are diagnosing and prescribing medication.
Edited, Apr 10th 2008 12:11pm by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Annabella wrote:
A four year old might literally be diagnosed every few years.
That's amazing. How do they keep him four years old all that time?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
A child's developmental stages have been so thoroughly mapped out over the decades that if a child doesn't exactly match the pattern they are considered "abnormal" -- which fails to take into account that children are little unfinished adults and thus everyone is going to be a little different.
Child, especially toddlers, are moody. They're learning the boundaries of behavior and will probably do better with a stricter schedule than medication if they're going from happy to angry to sulky every few weeks.
(Bipolar disorder runs in my family; after I found out my mother was bipolar, it explained a lot about my childhood.)
Child, especially toddlers, are moody. They're learning the boundaries of behavior and will probably do better with a stricter schedule than medication if they're going from happy to angry to sulky every few weeks.
(Bipolar disorder runs in my family; after I found out my mother was bipolar, it explained a lot about my childhood.)
Samira wrote:
Annabella wrote:
A four year old might literally be diagnosed every few years.
That's amazing. How do they keep him four years old all that time?
Freeze-drying. It's similar to a coffee-making process.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Quote:
Quote:
That's amazing. How do they keep him four years old all that time?
Usagichan has been following this technology for more than 20 years.
Edited, Apr 10th 2008 12:42pm by Timelordwho
Just as Planned.
Smash--
Just curious, not trying to start something: Did you take anything after the Disneyland incident?
--DK
Just curious, not trying to start something: Did you take anything after the Disneyland incident?
--DK
Darkknight wrote:
Smash--
Just curious, not trying to start something: Did you take anything after the Disneyland incident?
--DK
Just curious, not trying to start something: Did you take anything after the Disneyland incident?
--DK
Whoa, you've been around awhile.
Longtime reader, few time poster. 
--DK
--DK
Did you take anything after the Disneyland incident?
Yes. I haven't for years now, though.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Years ago when my oldest was diagnose with as bi-polar(19), a friend soon learn her daughter, about the same age was also bi-polar and sent me link to parent of bi-polar children advocacy group. Reading their list of behaviors of a bi-polar child, I can names several that she displayed. I wouldn't have sent her to see a doctor for any one of them. Sadly they have are very vocal and able to get the media behind them.
In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair! -ElneClare
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
The other issue is if 4 year olds can truly be diagnosed with bi-polarism at that stage of their development. Like labeling normal and healthy energetic children ADD or AD-HD and then prescribing sedatives because they wiggle too much and can't sit still, bi-polar disorder is something that would be easily and wrongly determined.
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