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Who's winning the human race?Follow

#1 Mar 06 2008 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I just recently became aware of Human Developement reports that are compiled by the United Nations Development Program.

Do you think the northern climates have something to do with developing peeps (longevity is a factor in determing the HDI)? If so, global warming could be more detrimental than we realize. Smiley: lol

I question the validity of France coming in tenth??

The top 20 Nations for Developing Humans
2007/2008 Human Development Index rankings
High Human Development
1. Iceland
2. Norway
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Japan
9. Netherlands
10.France
11.Finland
12.United States
13.Spain
14.Denmark
15.Austria
16.United Kingdom
17.Belgium
18.Luxembourg
19.New Zealand
20.Italy







edit - numbered for ranking readability:)

Edited, Mar 6th 2008 3:39pm by Elinda
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#2 Mar 06 2008 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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It would probably help if you explained what
Quote:
Human Developement reports
took into account, what they mean and how they where compiled. What does HDI stand for? I guess Human development index but what does that mean?

Is it purely longevity? Does quality of life get involved?

Give us a clue.

Assume i'm too lazy to google it, because i am, it's you asking the question you do the groundwork.

#3 Mar 06 2008 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda, Star Breaker wrote:
Do you think the northern climates have something to do with developing peeps (longevity is a factor in determing the HDI)?
I think they did historically. The "Go To" book on it is Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel which gives a good theory for it (although I think he overstates some points and glosses over others to solidify his argument). Boiled down to a single line, the book posits that Europe became the predominant power because life in Europe was hard (forcing competition leading to advancements) and had good resources (allowing people to use those advancements).

Of course, no one would buy a one line book so he pads it quite a bit with descriptions of domesticating animals, horticulture, spread of disease vectors, human migration, natural barriers, distribution of ore and coal, so on and so forth.

These days I think golablization and trade can minimize some of that but there's still plenty of nations who either don't have a ton of natural resources or else lack the infrastructure and political structure to exploit them. That and the nations who got a head start have tended to dick over the less developed nations for the past couple centuries.
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#4 Mar 06 2008 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Baron von tarv wrote:
It would probably help if you explained what
Quote:
Human Developement reports
took into account, what they mean and how they where compiled. What does HDI stand for? I guess Human development index but what does that mean?
Only one clue ya lazy bastage.

Human Developement Index is contructed from life expectancy at birth, adult literacy, gross enrollment in education, and GDP/capita.

Website.
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#5 Mar 06 2008 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
Elinda, Star Breaker wrote:
I question the validity of France coming in tenth??


Because we cheat with data? Otherwise, maybe we should question France's image abroad.

I'm not sure if it means that much. I've been to norway lots of times, and while it is beautiful, clean, rich, healthy, with low crime and low unemployment, it's also pretty fUcking boring.

And the weather is ****.

Also, 11 of the top 15 countries are in Europe, and as much as I like it here, you can't but help but think it might mean the index is bit skewed.
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#6 Mar 06 2008 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Elinda, Star Breaker wrote:
I question the validity of France coming in tenth??


Because we cheat with data? Otherwise, maybe we should question France's image abroad.
Because the french are such animals...rrwarr! (and they smell)

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#7 Mar 06 2008 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Fucking Mexico! Smiley: motz Ruining our perfect record over here.
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#8 Mar 06 2008 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Who's winning the human race?


This Guy.

Screenshot

Romano Kurzuwitch aka Beanball, native of Gruzia, the richest man alive.
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#9 Mar 06 2008 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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The human race is clearly losing.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#10 Mar 07 2008 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
I guess the index is fine, just it isn't linear, so it may not really be what people expect.

The index takes the log of the GDP while not taking the log of the other factors. This blunts the effect of money versus life expectancy and education, which I'm sure was the author's intention.

I'm sure I'd rather live 10% longer rather then make 10% more money, but what about 40% more money? How can this be a rational trade off?
#11 Mar 07 2008 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
The human race is clearly losing.

Now how can you of all people say that, when the top five countries in the list are all ones known for having people of red hair. That can't be a coincidence.
#12 Mar 07 2008 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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fhrugby the Wise wrote:
Debalic wrote:
The human race is clearly losing.

Now how can you of all people say that, when the top five countries in the list are all ones known for having people of red hair. That can't be a coincidence.

You think this is a favorable mutation? It has not proven to be of any use except as an extra category in **** sites.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#13 Mar 07 2008 at 8:33 PM Rating: Default
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Canada listed as a country (instead of the 51 state )...must have been a typo
#14 Mar 07 2008 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
fhrugby the Wise wrote:
Debalic wrote:
The human race is clearly losing.

Now how can you of all people say that, when the top five countries in the list are all ones known for having people of red hair. That can't be a coincidence.

You think this is a favorable mutation? It has not proven to be of any use except as an extra category in **** sites.

It is really not my fault that only red headed chicks are hawt.
#15 Mar 07 2008 at 11:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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#16 Mar 08 2008 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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The Honorable yenwangweh wrote:
Canada listed as a country (instead of the 51 state )...must have been a typo


How original.

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#17 Mar 08 2008 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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I predict that soon a mass exodus of Americans jumping the border to Canada to take advantage of a better lifestyle and more opportunities for their offspring will cause Canada to consider building a giant fence made of moose to protect themselves from our resource-draining hordes.

Or maybe our poor are just lazy.
#18 Mar 08 2008 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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No, no. no...we call up the beaver army to dam the border.

That way, we can drink Moosehead and watch hockey while they rid us of those pesky 'mericans.

Wait, I'm on the wrong side of the border.
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#19 Mar 08 2008 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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Tare wrote:
Wait, I'm on the wrong side of the border.
Don't worry, in time our cultures will be indistinguishable.
#20 Mar 08 2008 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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Atomicflea wrote:
Tare wrote:
Wait, I'm on the wrong side of the border.
Don't worry, in time our cultures will be indistinguishable.


=(

Oh dear.
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#21 Mar 08 2008 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Tare wrote:
=(

Oh dear.
Yes, at least half your population will speak English! At first you'll be angry about the stripping of your national identity, but then a faction will emerge that espouses the benefits of bilingualism.

It'll be awesome.

Edited, Mar 8th 2008 8:20am by Atomicflea
#22 Mar 08 2008 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Pass the beer then, eh.
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#23 Mar 10 2008 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
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yossarian wrote:
I guess the index is fine, just it isn't linear, so it may not really be what people expect.

The index takes the log of the GDP while not taking the log of the other factors. This blunts the effect of money versus life expectancy and education, which I'm sure was the author's intention.
Isn't it really just blunting the disparity between GDP's, versus the weight of the GDP?

Quote:
I'm sure I'd rather live 10% longer rather then make 10% more money, but what about 40% more money? How can this be a rational trade off?
??

I don't see a trade off. The only message I see here is that some countries do better than others at converting monetary worth to human-development (as it is definded by the UN). The US being one country that apparently doesnt' do so well as we have the highest GDP, yet are 14 in this ranking (i blame video games).

Some might argue that national security is a criteria for human developement, in which case the US could come out smelling like roses...or rose Bushes.
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#24 Mar 10 2008 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
Elinda, Star Breaker wrote:
yossarian wrote:
I guess the index is fine, just it isn't linear, so it may not really be what people expect.

The index takes the log of the GDP while not taking the log of the other factors. This blunts the effect of money versus life expectancy and education, which I'm sure was the author's intention.
Isn't it really just blunting the disparity between GDP's, versus the weight of the GDP?


Yes. It's just that the log function really, really blunts it. On a linear scale, if one nation has an average (per capita) GDP of, say, $1000 per year, a nation of twice that average, $2000, would receive twice the points. Both, of course, would be abysmally poor. On a scale of zero to one, the former would score: 0.025, the latter 0.05. On a log scale, to double the log of $1000 the nation would have to have an average per capita GDP of $1,000,000. The former scores 0.652 and the latter scores 1.304. In both the above cases, a nation scoring $40,000 per year scores 1.0, by definition.

Alternative functions which blunt, but not to the extent that the log does, would be something like the square root, or the cube root, which would be closer to the log (more blunting). In fact, any the GDP could be raised by any exponent between zero and one and that would "blunt" the effect.

Elinda wrote:

Quote:
I'm sure I'd rather live 10% longer rather then make 10% more money, but what about 40% more money? How can this be a rational trade off?
??

I don't see a trade off.


I should have been more clear. On a linear scale, if the GDP goes up by 10% but life expectancy goes down by 10%, would result in no change. However, since the HDI is nonlinear, it takes about a 40% increase in GDP to counter out a decrease of 10% in life expectancy. (Note: this is true only when the GDP score and life expectancy score are near equal to begin with - which is the case for the nations listed above).

Elinda wrote:
The only message I see here is that some countries do better than others at converting monetary worth to human-development (as it is definded by the UN). The US being one country that apparently doesnt' do so well as we have the highest GDP, yet are 14 in this ranking (i blame video games).

Some might argue that national security is a criteria for human developement, in which case the US could come out smelling like roses...or rose Bushes.


To some extent, national security would be reflected in life expectancy, which the US is low in and, of course, getting lower due to misguided efforts to improve our security.

But I agree national security could be added, or something like it.

The glaring omissions I see to the human development index are political, economic and personal freedoms and personal safety (crime rate).

I think the HDI was probably created to use information widely and easily available and thus really hard to measure things would be left out. Also, geography determines national security to a large extent. They may not have wanted an index in which a nation can be damned by its neighbors, assuming you could even define such a thing.
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