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He's not even letting her breatheFollow

#1 Feb 20 2008 at 4:33 AM Rating: Good
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Obama is taking it to her

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In a race growing increasingly negative, Obama cut deeply into Clinton's political bedrock in Wisconsin, splitting the support of white women almost evenly with her. According to polling place interviews, he also ran well among working class voters in the blue collar battleground that was prelude to primaries in the larger industrial states of Ohio and Pennsylvania.
#2 Feb 20 2008 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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If she doesn't get a glimmer of hope in the next few weeks, she should do the "right" thing and step out of the race. Otherwise, McCain's going to have too much time to start gathering resources for the general election. And he may be just far enough on the left side of conservative, to sway a few Dem voters.
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#3 Feb 20 2008 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Bodes well for Ohio. Both states are largely white (5% Black in WI and 7-10% in Ohio) with barely any Hispanic population. Both states have economies which rely first on manufacturing and then on agriculture. They differ by about $1000 in people's average annual income. In other words, Wisconsin was a good test for how well Obama can do in Ohio with enough groundwork.

The win in Wisconsin was something of a surprise. Although Obama was favored, his polling averages never broke 4% and, by last night, folks were saying they wouldn't be shocked at a Clinton upset. Obama winning by 17% was completely unexpected.

Obama's campaign has been trying to hit 500,000 unique contributors by March 4th. Last night, I saw the counter jump from 455,000 to 470,000 in about an hour or two. 15,000 new people sending in money in a two hour span is nothing to sneeze at.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4 Feb 20 2008 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Obama's campaign has been trying to hit 500,000 unique contributors by March 4th. Last night, I saw the counter jump from 455,000 to 470,000 in about an hour or two. 15,000 new people sending in money in a two hour span is nothing to sneeze at.


You guys send money to your politicians?
#5 Feb 20 2008 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
You guys send money to your politicians?
Uhm, we do too. It's part of the campaign funding.
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#6 Feb 20 2008 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
You guys send money to your politicians?
It's either that or let Mitt "Two-Hundred-Million-Dollar-Man" Romney win the presidency Smiley: wink2
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#7 Feb 20 2008 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
Hillary launched a new website today to argue the current delegate process. How conscientious of her. Smiley: rolleyes
http://www.delegatehub.com/
#8 Feb 20 2008 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch the Great wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
You guys send money to your politicians?
Uhm, we do too. It's part of the campaign funding.


Wow, I don't. Never will either. Forgive my political ignorance, but I don't get all this delegate crap. Why doesn't the party vote internally for their leader and put that person up against the other party for president? Then the public decides who picked the best leader. You've got 2 people from the same party spending loads of cash fighting each other. Just seems like an unnecessary (and expensive) step to me.

I think there should be a cap on campaigns to even the playing field. Each potential leader gets to spend x dollars on campaign expenses and no more. The way it's set up now, it's almost like the rich people get to pick your president (our system works roughly the same way of course).
#9 Feb 20 2008 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Why doesn't the party vote internally for their leader and put that person up against the other party for president?
Well, each party IS voting for their candidate via the primaries but I don't think there'd be much support for a system where the public was shut out of the first round. Constitutionally, anyone who is a naturally born citizen and 35+ years of age can run for President. On the state level, you need to have enough support to get your name on the ballot. Saying that the political parties would decide for you would be, frankly, unconstitutional in my opinion. Plus it would make every other presidental hopeful run as an independent, thus fracturing the parties completely. There's no benefit to the parties to choose internally.
Quote:
I think there should be a cap on campaigns to even the playing field. Each potential leader gets to spend x dollars on campaign expenses and no more.
There is if you accept public funding. If you privately fund yourself through contributions or your own pocket or whatever then you're free to spend as much money as you want.
Quote:
The way it's set up now, it's almost like the rich people get to pick your president (our system works roughly the same way of course).
One of the big surprises that came out of Obama's fund-raising organization is that it's based on lots and lots of donors giving in small increments. The average Obama contributor has given $200 so far, usually in several contributions. but all of those $25 donations add up and its a constant source of cash for the campaign. In contrast (and working against her), over half of Clinton's donors gave the maximum legal limit of $2300 and are shut out from donating again for the rest of the primary. She spent all that money early on and is working on a much smaller pool of donors to keep her going. which'll only get worse if people think they're backing a loser.

Edited, Feb 20th 2008 1:02pm by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#10 Feb 20 2008 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, each party IS voting for their candidate via the primaries but I don't think there'd be much support for a system where the public was shut out of the first round. Constitutionally, anyone who is a naturally born citizen and 35+ years of age can run for President. On the state level, you need to have enough support to get your name on the ballot. Saying that the political parties would decide for you would be, frankly, unconstitutional in my opinion. Plus it would make every other presidental hopeful run as an independent, thus fracturing the parties completely. There's no benefit to the parties to choose internally.


Good points, and I see the reasoning behind it but it still seems like an over complicated way of selecting a leader. You're voting for who you can vote for. Why not just dispense with the primaries altogether and vote for president in the first round? The end result would be the same.
#11 Feb 20 2008 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Well, each party IS voting for their candidate via the primaries but I don't think there'd be much support for a system where the public was shut out of the first round. Constitutionally, anyone who is a naturally born citizen and 35+ years of age can run for President. On the state level, you need to have enough support to get your name on the ballot. Saying that the political parties would decide for you would be, frankly, unconstitutional in my opinion. Plus it would make every other presidental hopeful run as an independent, thus fracturing the parties completely. There's no benefit to the parties to choose internally.


Good points, and I see the reasoning behind it but it still seems like an over complicated way of selecting a leader. You're voting for who you can vote for. Why not just dispense with the primaries altogether and vote for president in the first round? The end result would be the same.


No, it wouldn't. If you have a clear front-runner for one party and a split like we have now in another party, the party with the clear front runner is going to win. If we had a general election at the beginning and the majority of republicans voted for McCain and the democrats were split...you see what I mean? This way, it tells the parties who their candidate is so that they can choose between parties.

Nexa
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#12 Feb 20 2008 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Why not just dispense with the primaries altogether and vote for president in the first round? The end result would be the same.
It's a vetting process. The primaries give each party a chance to narrow down their choices and select who they want based on their debates, issues, campaigns, etc.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#13 Feb 20 2008 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Nexa wrote:
No, it wouldn't. If you have a clear front-runner for one party and a split like we have now in another party, the party with the clear front runner is going to win. If we had a general election at the beginning and the majority of republicans voted for McCain and the democrats were split...you see what I mean? This way, it tells the parties who their candidate is so that they can choose between parties.

Nexa


You're right it wouldn't be the same result. I think it would be a better system. If 10000 people vote for John, 5000 vote for Jenn, 6000 vote for James, then John should be president no matter what parties Jenn and James are a part of. You should be voting for a president not a party, but that's just my opinion. It should be best person for the job, not the person who happens to have the kind of friends you like.

Meh, if it works for you guys great. At least I understand how it works now :).
#14 Feb 20 2008 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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If 10000 people vote for John, 5000 vote for Jenn, 6000 vote for James, then John should be president no matter what parties Jenn and James are a part of. You should be voting for a president not a party, but that's just my opinion.


That works fine in Governments without a strong Executive branch, where most of the power is consolidated in the legislature. It would be a moronic way to adjudicate an election with a strong executive branch. A system where voters offered second and third choices that were used when one candidate didn't have a majority would be more interesting, but really. Stop and think for one second.

This is the US. It would take 150 years for voters even to understand what was happening if we radically revamped the electoral system.
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#15 Feb 20 2008 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You're right it wouldn't be the same result. I think it would be a better system. If 10000 people vote for John, 5000 vote for Jenn, 6000 vote for James, then John should be president no matter what parties Jenn and James are a part of


Doing so reduces voting to a random expression of preference of the voter, whereas the ideal at least is the decision made from the result of an informed and contemplated judgment. Part of voting is deciding who you don't want in office, and if 11k people do not want John in office, then they should overrule 10k that do. Having a primary allows people to make compromises on which issues they believe are represented most by the candidates that have a shot at winning.

If we were only attempting to elect people with identical views on issues as ourselves, then there would be no point in elections at all, for we would be much better off by simply ruling our own, personal lives. We can't do it that way though, and thus need a system which allows the voter to express an informed opinion of, not only what they want to have happen, but of what they wish to prevent.
#16 Feb 20 2008 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Doing so reduces voting to a random expression of preference of the voter, whereas the ideal at least is the decision made from the result of an informed and contemplated judgment


Ahahahahahahahaha. Ha. HAhahaha. Ahhh.

That's never been the ideal. The ideal has been to manipulate people with fear, bread, or lies to secure power for yourself for about 10,000 years now.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#17 Feb 20 2008 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

That works fine in Governments without a strong Executive branch, where most of the power is consolidated in the legislature. It would be a moronic way to adjudicate an election with a strong executive branch. A system where voters offered second and third choices that were used when one candidate didn't have a majority would be more interesting, but really. Stop and think for one second.

This is the US. It would take 150 years for voters even to understand what was happening if we radically revamped the electoral system.


Well I also believe that the executive branch of a government should have very little decision making powers and be more of a communication tool/figure head, NO single person should have as much power as the American President is given.
#18 Feb 20 2008 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I also believe that the executive branch of a government should have very little decision making powers and be more of a communication tool/figure head, NO single person should have as much power as the American President is given.


Yeah, me too, but I also want my flying car and 100 nubile concubines.

I'm clearly not getting the car.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#19 Feb 20 2008 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
You're right it wouldn't be the same result. I think it would be a better system. If 10000 people vote for John, 5000 vote for Jenn, 6000 vote for James, then John should be president no matter what parties Jenn and James are a part of.

If you wanted something remotely like that, you'd have to use a run-off, where voters rank the candidates in order of preference. Incremental point values are awarded for a vote at each rank.

#20 Feb 20 2008 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
You're right it wouldn't be the same result. I think it would be a better system. If 10000 people vote for John, 5000 vote for Jenn, 6000 vote for James, then John should be president no matter what parties Jenn and James are a part of. You should be voting for a president not a party, but that's just my opinion. It should be best person for the job, not the person who happens to have the kind of friends you like.
Frankly, it's built that way to protect against people like you.

Christ.
#21 Feb 20 2008 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Well I also believe that the executive branch of a government should have very little decision making powers and be more of a communication tool/figure head, NO single person should have as much power as the American President is given.


Yeah, me too, but I also want my flying car and 100 nubile concubines.

I'm clearly not getting the car.



Smiley: rolleyes
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#22 Feb 20 2008 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Fine, fine, no concubines.

Swedish Au Pair for Hannah?
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#23 Feb 20 2008 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Fine, fine, no concubines.

Swedish Au Pair for Hannah?


Sure, but it'll be a guy.

Nexa
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“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#24 Feb 20 2008 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Sure, but it'll be a guy.


Sweet, the reverse psychology is working. Oh SVENNNN!
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#25 Feb 20 2008 at 6:15 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

Sure, but it'll be a guy.


Sweet, the reverse psychology is working. Oh SVENNNN!
Quite a compliment to your woman, there, Smoove. Smiley: lol
#26 Feb 20 2008 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Atomicflea wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

Sure, but it'll be a guy.


Sweet, the reverse psychology is working. Oh SVENNNN!
Quite a compliment to your woman, there, Smoove. Smiley: lol


You think I signed up for this ride with high hopes for romance and flowery praise? I call it a good day when I get "man, that's a nice ***" four or five times. I also call it Saturday.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
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