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Serbia pledges to fight Kosovo independenceFollow

#1 Feb 17 2008 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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BELGRADE, Feb 17 (Reuters) - Serbia's prime minister and president pledged resistance to Kosovo's declaration of independence on Sunday, but gave out very different signals on how the move would affect Serbia's ties with the West.

Nationalist Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica, who led a diplomatic battle to retain Kosovo, attacked the United States and European Union for supporting the secession of a province Serbs see as their religious and historic heartland.

In a televised address to the nation minutes after Kosovo formally severed ties after nine years under U.N. control, he accused the United States of being "ready to violate the international order for its own military interests".

"As long as the Serb people exist, Kosovo will be Serbia," Kostunica said.


The first new nation of the century will be welcomed into the national (but not their local) community with open arms. This is pretty damn historic and I hope nothing terrible comes of it.
#2 Feb 17 2008 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I was wondering how long before central Europe gets exploderated.
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#3 Feb 17 2008 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
oh my, will NATO get called in...



j/k
#4 Feb 17 2008 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
I find it curious that the only institution that reportedly called for a "violent" reaction to the incident was the church...

Quote:
The sharpest reaction was from the Serb Orthodox Church in Kosovo, whose leader Bishop Artemije denounced the army for doing nothing and said Serbia should buy arms from Russia to fight. (additional reporting by Ljilja Cvekic; editing by Richard Meares)


Of course I'm sure it's only part of the story, but according to the statements made in the article, the church seems to be the only group calling for immediate military response. Smiley: dubious
#5 Feb 17 2008 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only BrownDuck wrote:
I find it curious that the only institution that reportedly called for a "violent" reaction to the incident was the church...

Quote:
The sharpest reaction was from the Serb Orthodox Church in Kosovo, whose leader Bishop Artemije denounced the army for doing nothing and said Serbia should buy arms from Russia to fight. (additional reporting by Ljilja Cvekic; editing by Richard Meares)


Of course I'm sure it's only part of the story, but according to the statements made in the article, the church seems to be the only group calling for immediate military response. Smiley: dubious

I do not find it surprising that the church is the first to call for military response. The history of Kosovo is very bloody with Christians fighting Muslims, and the both sides being very ruthless in their treatment of the other. In Kosovo the Muslim/Albanians are the majority and the Serbs/Christians are the minority. During world war two when Albania controlled Kosovo, more than 10,000 Christian Serbs were killed and 100,000 forced to live in exile, The Albanians then brought in people from Albania to live in the homes of those killed and driven out. The wars in the early 90s fought in and around Kosovo was just a small altercation in the violent history of this region. The church fears repeats of what happened 60 years ago and wants its members protected.

Edited, Feb 17th 2008 3:41pm by fhrugby
#6 Feb 17 2008 at 1:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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they don't have any leaders named "Ferdenand" there anymore do they?
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#7 Feb 17 2008 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
I was wondering how long before central Europe gets exploderated.


Central Europe will be fine. It is the Balkans you should worry about--living up to their name and all.

It's difficult when Serbia has become such a non-player after losing both Slovenia and Croatia, then spending years in a protracted war with Bosnia and to an extent, Macedonia. They'll fight for every little bit to prevent their country from further schisms.

I know this from spending a bunch of time in the Balkans--in Serbia, especially given the historic tensions with Croatia, the Serbian Orthodox Church is the center of nationalistic identity--a way of organizing that existed despite communism--probably one of the few ways of organizing. And the way that they maintained solidarity during WWII, when Croatia was aligned with the **** party. It's not surprising that they'd call for war since the function of the church has been to maintain the national integrity.


Edited, Feb 17th 2008 4:55pm by Annabella
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#8 Feb 17 2008 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
Fine. Take away my backhanded insult at religion in general with your sensible responses. Smiley: glare
#9 Feb 17 2008 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
Everyone knew this would happen months ago. And on this date, too. The EU has a special police force deployed there in anticipation. But it won't kick off into war. The Serbs are totally dependent on Russi, and Russia knew it would happen. They'll talk about it again in the SC, and it'll be a bit tense. There might some small scale violence in the serbian enclave inside Kosovo, but even that is expected.

I'm not sure how good a move it was, but no one can say they were suprised.
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#10 Feb 17 2008 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Everyone knew this would happen months ago. And on this date, too. The EU has a special police force deployed there in anticipation. But it won't kick off into war. The Serbs are totally dependent on Russi, and Russia knew it would happen. They'll talk about it again in the SC, and it'll be a bit tense. There might some small scale violence in the serbian enclave inside Kosovo, but even that is expected.

I'm not sure how good a move it was, but no one can say they were suprised.

Live and learn?

When East Timor had a referendum on indepedance from Indonesia, I was thinking for months beforehand: But...but...if East Timor votes yes, Indonesia is going to send people in and massacre everyone.

It's still a complete puzzlement to me that Western governments either didn't see something that was glaringly obvious to me, or that they did, and handled it the way that they chose to, for diplomatic or international law reasons.

Timor voted yes, and Indonesia duly massacred everyone, although they did so under the guise of militias, and not uniformed soldiers. The West reacted weeks late, getting peacekeeping forces there months after they were needed.

Of those not killed, a million Timorese were rounded up and hustled over the border into Indonesia into refugee camps, patrolled by armed Indonesian guards, where they remained for years. Packed together in squalid conditions and purposefully kept ignorant that it was safe to return home.

The whole excercise was a valuable warning by the Indonesian government to any other province that dares to think it wants to secede.
#11 Feb 17 2008 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Then again, Slovenia broke away in a relatively short-lived conflict-- I don't think they were ready at the beginning for a bloody war. I think it is when the people in power feel as if they lose control. I think it is similar to how it was when Chechnya finally tried to break away after the Ukraine, Belarussia (a marginally independent state), the Baltics, etc. etc., broke away. It is the reaction of a crumbling empire. Serbia is a shell of what it was 20 years ago. Almost all the areas have already seceded, which is considerably different than the situation in Indonesia or in China with Tibet, as an other example.

It's fascinating to read about the role of the press in the beginning of the Yugoslavian conflict and about how much the war itself changed the relations of the people- while there was always some conflict, the destruction of the war itself really inflamed people.
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#12 Feb 18 2008 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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The Honorable Annabella wrote:
Debalic wrote:
I was wondering how long before central Europe gets exploderated.


Central Europe will be fine. It is the Balkans you should worry about--living up to their name and all.

Yeah, that's what I meant, I just got confused with my geography - For some reason I thought the Balkans referred to the Baltic Sea region - Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia.

/brain fart
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#13 Feb 18 2008 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
It seems like a fundamentally good idea to allow people the freedom to form their own nation. I just can't help but think Iraq could be a vastly different place if three (or so) autonomous regions were delineated initially.
#14 Feb 19 2008 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
yossarian wrote:
It seems like a fundamentally good idea to allow people the freedom to form their own nation. I just can't help but think Iraq could be a vastly different place if three (or so) autonomous regions were delineated initially.


It's not a panacea, though.

Take Kosovo. Kosovo is considered by Serbians to be the birthplace of Serbia, its heartland. It was populated massively by Albanians in recent history, but it has no historical claim to being a state. It has never been a state. It has simply known a massive influx of Albanian immigrants, which after a while tipped the population balance in favour of Albanians. A bit as if, one day, Texas had a vast majority of Latino population who decided to break away from the US and make their own country. Not even join Mexico, as Kosovo could've done with Albania, but create a state out of nothing.

Of course, the war in the 90s makes the current situation a little bit special. It would've been extremely hard to go back on the promise the West gave to Kosovo after the war. Hard to imagine Kosovo going back to being united to Serbia after all the recent history.

Nevertheless, it does create a precedent in international law. And in some ways, quite a loose one too. You can bet the breakaway regions of Georgia, Armernia, or Ukraine, will use Kosovo as an exemple for next century.

Kosovo is the 193rd country. That's fine, but I'm not convinced a plethora of small countries is necessarily a good thing. Especially if they are not part of a bigger regional union, like the EU. Kosovo should join it, in time, but still. Lots of small hostile countries with competiting interests can lead to incredible instability.

But even if Kosovo joins the EU, that will only serve to heighten tensions with the Orthodox: Russia, Serbia, and to a lesser extent, Greece. It's a nasty sticking point, and its going to stay that way for the forseeable future.

In this particular case, I'm not sure there were many alternatives for the West. Nor for Russia. Since everyone knew it would happen ages ago, you have to think everyone will bark but no one will bite. At least in the short-term.

As for Iraq, I'm not convinced about partition. It's a whole new topic though.
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#15 Feb 19 2008 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
You can bet the breakaway regions of Georgia, Armernia, or Ukraine, will use Kosovo as an exemple for next century.
...maybe California too. 'Arnieland'
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