it,s F-CAT time again....Follow

O Really ?..............

That's right, allocating available funding from schools that need it most to ones that need it the least is a great idea.

Seriously, as far as Governors go, I actually feel that Jeb was not as bad as others, but the implementation of the FCAT has been one of his worst moves. I'm not even going to get into Chiles right now, and a lot of your information is very wrong.

Now I really have to go to dinner. I'll reply later if I get back at a decent time, but don't count on it. ;-)

Edited, Feb 14th 2008 5:55pm by Alixana

Singdall, you remind me of someone who reads what people posts, but rather than actually reading the message, you draw conclusions about what is being said and base all of your points on that.

Let me spell out what my statement meant, since evidently I am required to do this for anything I say.

Schools that are under performing on the FCAT are schools that are in the most need of funding; however, all of the "bonus" money gets distributed to the "good" schools, most of which have far better funding than the "bad' schools to begin with, which lessens the "bad" schools' chances of becoming on par with the "good" schools. So, in what is the available pool of funding, you have more money going to the programs that need it the least, bonus or not.

Actually, the fact that the pay is tied to teachers rather than the program is far worse and is indicative of how messed up the system truly is. Force teachers to neglect real curriculum, and focus solely on the FCAT and reducing your child's education, and get a PAY BONUS! That is such a slap in the face to the hard-working teachers who already face an uphill battle, and it destroyed a lot of morale in FL teachers. To further expound on this, in Florida, schools are also on a tiered system of A,B,C,D,and F, which is based off of FCAT scores. Furthermore, Jeb has always endorsed public tax dollars for private schools, as well as vouchers so that students ensure attending the "good" private schools and shunning the "bad"- and of course, school choice so that little Timmy can attend an "A" school instead of the "F" school in his neighborhood...furthering this scary notion of an educational "caste" system of sorts, rather than actually improving schools that are under performing. It's counterproductive, and the end result is punishment to the under performing schools. Get it?

To use your own earlier points as a starting point...

So, let's look at what the trends have been, shall we? School A reports poor numbers on the FCAT, receiving a score of "D" for that year. School B reports good FCAT scores, and recieves a score of "A" for that year. Thanks to the voucher system and school choice, as a result school B receives higher enrollment and hence more funding the following year. Do you now see the correlation between the FCAT, school rankings, and school funding? It can get even more detailed than this, but I do not have the time or the energy right now.

Now, when it came to Chiles, he did quite a bit for education in Florida, but this argument isn't really about him. I would, though, love to see this evidence of Chiles cutting ALL of this budget money for education previously, because I have not seen or read anything like that at all. If you have any links to articles that support this, I would love to see them. Chiles supported the lottery as supplemental funding to the school budget, such as to help pay for textbooks. Was it perfect? No, it wasn't, I agree. However, from what I can recall and of what I have read I have never seen evidence of Chiles slashing the education budget, so once again, prove me wrong with some evidence. :) However, Jeb did not really increase education spending by all that much in his first term if you take inflation into account, actually. Hardly an improvement over Chiles, even so. Here's a tidbit for ya.
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/02/17/State/Bush_oversells_his_sp.shtml

As for Jeb Bush being "blameless" and simply following federal regulations regarding our current standardized testing/school ranking format, you're dead wrong. Those were the precise views that Jeb proposed when running for Governor in 1998 versus Buddy McKay.

That was from a "on the issues" article contrasting the two candidates for the Governor race in 1998.

Furthermore, my age has nothing to do with this debate, except for the fact that I shared what it was like to have to take the damn FCAT. It has no bearing on my knowledge of the facts, because I can read, and I do, believe it or not. Scary, I know, a young person actually caring and reading up on issues, I thought we were all still too busy drinking and being generally wasteful. I take it upon myself to research the issues, and the nature of education in the state of FL was of particular interest to me at an age where I was a fairly unwilling consumer. It doesn't matter that I was six years old when Chiles entered office, and it doesn't negate my opinion. Would your opinions on the political climate of the 1960's change for that very reason? No. So, if you're going to have this pleasant discourse with me, then please leave that at the door. And also, just to be a jerk, it's Lawton Chiles.

Nah, I wasn't making a jab at anyone in particular, just totally failed to have a good opening sentence. :P I wrote it last and it shows...time for bed.

Of coarse.

I'm a big fan of standarized tests, but I'm biased. I "tested" well in highschool, and because of this got a letter from UNH telling me I could skip a introductory math class because of my SAT scores.

And, another letter, saying I had to take remedial math classes because of my low grades in math.

However, I didn't go to UNH though, so I never actually had to make a choice between the two.

I'm told they don't have standardized testing in evil villain school, so Hannah should be all set.

Nexa

Schools that are under performing on the FCAT are schools that are in the most need of funding; however, all of the "bonus" money gets distributed to the "good" schools, most of which have far better funding than the "bad' schools to begin with, which lessens the "bad" schools' chances of becoming on par with the "good" schools. So, in what is the available pool of funding, you have more money going to the programs that need it the least, bonus or not.

here is a history lesson for you.

the school funding was in place BEFORE the FCAT requirements.

the school funding has not really changed. again you miss the point. each FL PUBLIC school gets "paid" per student attending.

Actually, the fact that the pay is tied to teachers rather than the program is far worse and is indicative of how messed up the system truly is. Force teachers to neglect real curriculum, and focus solely on the FCAT and reducing your child's education, and get a PAY BONUS! That is such a slap in the face to the hard-working teachers who already face an uphill battle, and it destroyed a lot of morale in FL teachers. To further expound on this, in Florida, schools are also on a tiered system of A,B,C,D,and F, which is based off of FCAT scores.

have i not said that this is what is wrong with the FCAT?

get a clue.

Furthermore, Jeb has always endorsed public tax dollars for private schools, as well as vouchers so that students ensure attending the "good" private schools and shunning the "bad"- and of course, school choice so that little Timmy can attend an "A" school instead of the "F" school in his neighborhood...furthering this scary notion of an educational "caste" system of sorts, rather than actually improving schools that are under performing. It's counterproductive, and the end result is punishment to the under performing schools. Get it?

ok lets try this again.

the voucher system allows special needs children, not all children the ability to participate in a school that has the "programs" to fill the needs of that child. how do i know? simple my daughter is a part of that system. she no longer goes to public schools as they do not have the abilities or the teachers or the programs to fill the needs of my daughter, but the local private school does and the state pays a portion of her tuition, not even 1/3 just FYI. the rest of my daughters tuition comes out of MY POCKET and yeah i still pay taxes for that.

this has nothing to do with moving child A out of school with an "F" rating and everything to do with helping child B with special needs get into a program that can help those needs.

so no punishment is done here and it is NOT counterproductive in any way.

So, let's look at what the trends have been, shall we? School A reports poor numbers on the FCAT, receiving a score of "D" for that year. School B reports good FCAT scores, and recieves a score of "A" for that year. Thanks to the voucher system and school choice, as a result school B receives higher enrollment and hence more funding the following year. Do you now see the correlation between the FCAT, school rankings, and school funding? It can get even more detailed than this, but I do not have the time or the energy right now.

again good try, but you can not just pick up and leave a school you are slated for just because you do not like that school. you are free and welcome to PAY to go to an other school or a public school, but the state will not just allow your child to up and leave a bad school to go to a "better" school just because you do not like it. thus the schools with the higher ratings DO NOT get more students then the schools with lower ratings and thus their budget is not affected.

good try though.

Schools which do not meet state educational guidelines may not have the resources available to make needed improvements, leading to a cycle of mediocrity and chronic underachievement. Taking additional state money to allow students to attend private schools would further undermine any chance for these schools to improve their performance.

again this is not the case, see above. also the total number of children per school that get the vouchers is so small as to NOT make a difference in the overall budget of the school.

Furthermore, my age has nothing to do with this debate, except for the fact that I shared what it was like to have to take the damn FCAT. It has no bearing on my knowledge of the facts, because I can read, and I do, believe it or not. Scary, I know, a young person actually caring and reading up on issues, I thought we were all still too busy drinking and being generally wasteful. I take it upon myself to research the issues, and the nature of education in the state of FL was of particular interest to me at an age where I was a fairly unwilling consumer. It doesn't matter that I was six years old when Chiles entered office, and it doesn't negate my opinion. Would your opinions on the political climate of the 1960's change for that very reason?

yes your AGE has a lot to do with things.

as for the direct challenge to my "view" of how things were in the 60s i am damn sure they would be different if i were old enough and active in that time of history, just as my POV of things in the 70s and 80s is i can bet different then yours who was not even alive in that time.

what you know about the late 80s and early 90s you have READ, i have LIVED. there is a huge insurmountable difference that you will not understand until you are about 10 years older then you are now.

As for Chiles cutting the education budget, look into the implementation of the lottery system in FL along with the loss of revenue it caused in the late 80s and early 90s.

again this is why we have early release on Wed. and why we have rolling starting/ending schedules for primary, middle, and highschools so you can use 1 bus for all 3 schools.

One day, sure, but you have to have the proper certification to run your own volcano lair these days. You can't even get a decent crocodile trainer to populate your moat without the proper paperwork. Also: FORGET about getting a decent super hero to be your arch nemesis...without the background work you end up stuck with the Car Wash Ranger or Super-Boy-Scout Door Opener. I won't have my baby wasting that maniacal laughter on door slamming, no sir.

Red tape...even in the evil villain world.

Nexa