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Could the Web tablet replace the notebook?Follow

#27 Feb 13 2008 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

Ah! I see my mistake! I didn't realize that when people spoke about the importance of a "free internet", they actually meant "paid for and controlled by government".


You mean like the one we have now?



If you think that your privacy is being monitored/violated whilst on the internet today, just imagine what it would be like if the government actually funded a significant portion of it.

Do you just not think these things through?
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#28 Feb 14 2008 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
A bunch of valid points


That have nothing to do with the issue.

You've just described what I would say is 1 in 40 companies. Most companies have a couple of servers (file, email, print, database, webserver) that are accessed by crappy PCs and laptops that cost $500 a piece. There will be a couple of good machines that are used by the people that need them, which are generally very few relative to the population of the company.

Your average employee needs:

Office
Outlook (part of office)
Web browser
Maybe Adobe
rarely Access (part of office)
occasionally some custom software that usually runs through a web browser anyways.

All of which run just fine on a tablet.

Most companies do not use thin clients. They use windows 2000 on every machine and login to the network for access to the file/print/database servers. Tablets just make more sense going into the future. They can do everything necessary, they are portable, small footprint, low power usage. As long as they can stand on a table when necessary and hook up to your input device of choice there is no reason to have a bulky monitor and box at every desk. We're not there yet, but in 5 years I think we will be.
#29 Feb 14 2008 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
By tablet, I assume this is something which one writes upon with a stylus. Currently I'm not interested. The keyboard is just so much faster. Perhaps if handwriting recognition improves. For example, if I could hand write greek and standard ascii characters with the stylus - that would be a start.
#30 Feb 14 2008 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
Yodabunny wrote:
gbaji wrote:
A bunch of valid points


That have nothing to do with the issue.

You've just described what I would say is 1 in 40 companies. Most companies have a couple of servers (file, email, print, database, webserver) that are accessed by crappy PCs and laptops that cost $500 a piece. There will be a couple of good machines that are used by the people that need them, which are generally very few relative to the population of the company.


I definitely think we're all coming from a different wavelength here. gbaji is talking about mobile units that are in actuality monitors for some server hundreds of miles away. You're talking about laptops and general use computers in an office somewhere. I'm talking about something similar to an iPhone for very simple browsing and keeping in touch.

I think what gbaji is talking about is exactly where things need to go in a large corporate environment. Really, all we're waiting for to make it happen is more accessibility to the internet. Instead of just pay phones, wireless access points in your neighborhoods. Not just hotels, airports, and some coffee shops.

I think you're also right, Yoda. There will be a point when technology, consumer knowledge and simplicity will be needed for your smaller companies. Really, the technology is still slightly lacking, though with bluetooth, that might change real quick. At that point, it's left up to the consumer, owners, and those people who can sell them. I think the simplicity is already there, though.
#31 Feb 14 2008 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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yossarian wrote:
By tablet, I assume this is something which one writes upon with a stylus. Currently I'm not interested. The keyboard is just so much faster. Perhaps if handwriting recognition improves. For example, if I could hand write greek and standard ascii characters with the stylus - that would be a start.


I actually assumed (based in part by statements in the article itself) that he was just talking about any sort of "PC-lite" type device. It can definitely include smaller devices with full keyboards (heck. My phone has a full keyboard, so why not?). Basically, devices that don't have fully featured OSes, designed primarily for a single or small set of specific functions (specifically web browsing).

My issue is that I really think the author of the article is going in the wrong direction. People use laptops specifically because they have a fully featured OS on them. They can run those apps listed above natively. You just can't get around a certain amount of weight in any system that's got a cpu, disk, and display that people feel comfortable enough working with for any length of time.

While I think he's correct to a point, the problem is that a machine designed almost entirely for web access can't do most of the things people have laptops for. And my point about the whole thin client thing is that in order for what he's talking about to work, you'd need more infrastructure at the backend. You *can* run office apps remotely, and not need to have windows/whatever installed locally. You can run any app that way. But it has to be set up.


He's basically proposing an in-between device, which I personally don't agree with. Many companies have tried to push the "PC-lite" device over the last 15 years or so. I've seen many different models and designs. Ultimately, they don't end up doing much for exactly the reason that they aren't really good at either of the two things they are "in-between". They don't work as well as a laptop for running office type applications, and they are too bulky/annoying for purely communication apps (web-browsing, email, etc). I can use my phone to do basically any web type application that doesn't require specific applications installed locally to work. That's the direction that particular bit's going. Why carry around something he calls a "web tablet" when I can do that on a cell phone?

If I'm going to have anything bigger then that, then I may as well get a laptop computer and go all the way. And most consumers seem to see this the same way.
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#32 Feb 14 2008 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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That's more or less what I was saying; only I was suggesting what I think is reasonably the most portable full PC. I think we could go a step further than the notebook, but ultimately the size of a full PC is always going to be limited by the size of the users' hands and eyes.
#33 Feb 14 2008 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
That's more or less what I was saying; only I was suggesting what I think is reasonably the most portable full PC. I think we could go a step further than the notebook, but ultimately the size of a full PC is always going to be limited by the size of the users' hands and eyes.


Right. And that's kind of another point of contention I had with the article. Right now, the tech has improved so much that it really is about the size of the interface. We can make ridiculously lightweight disks, boards, ram, and even displays. The weight of a laptop has most to do with the need for a case designed to support a full sized interface, not with the actual capabilities of the laptop itself.

I only see that getting to be more true. If anything, the trend is laptops has been "larger" displays and keyboards, but in lighter packages. Most people aren't willing to use a smaller device that's harder to use and has less features then a full computer just because it's half the weight and size. That's just not enough IMO. If I'm ok with small, then I see the direction being increased functionality in cellphone type devices. If I'm carrying one around already, it doesn't hurt to have it capable of web browsing, and accessing some basic online applications as well. I'm not going to carry around a second, slightly larger device, that has some increased functionality, but isn't full sized or fully functional.


It's that in-between that I think just ends up missing the market on both sides...
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#34 Feb 15 2008 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji, I'm not sure you understand what this guy is saying. I'm going to use my Nokia as I'm most knowledgeable about it. It has the capability to do basic web functions we're all used to doing on our computers. (BroIfwsing, email, chat clients, VoIP) On top of it, it's a more than capable mp3 player, GPS navigation, lolFM radio, and even become the remote control for your TV. This is why I can see a gravitation to using it for personal use. Yeah, you can use your phone to do email, an mp3 player to listen to music in your car, either buy a car with GPS or get a Garmin. But for me personally, I'd much rather have that all in one place.

If you want to do some heavier typing, there are always bluetooth keyboards (which you'd need to get for your cell phone as well). The only thing I really see lacking on it right now, for personal use, is a reliable way to keep track of your finances. It syncs with my Google calendar. There is even development for an office suite so you can do real word processing, spreadsheets, so on so forth.

It really comes down what you're willing to pay.
#35 Feb 15 2008 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not going to carry around a second, slightly larger device, that has some increased functionality, but isn't full sized or fully functional.


It's that in-between that I think just ends up missing the market on both sides...


The fact that Asus can't keep up with massive demand for the EEEPC would seem to indicate that, as usual, your sense of market forces is dead wrong.

Shocking.

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#36 Feb 15 2008 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Melody the Eccentric wrote:
gbaji, I'm not sure you understand what this guy is saying. I'm going to use my Nokia as I'm most knowledgeable about it. It has the capability to do basic web functions we're all used to doing on our computers. (BroIfwsing, email, chat clients, VoIP) On top of it, it's a more than capable mp3 player, GPS navigation, lolFM radio, and even become the remote control for your TV. This is why I can see a gravitation to using it for personal use. Yeah, you can use your phone to do email, an mp3 player to listen to music in your car, either buy a car with GPS or get a Garmin. But for me personally, I'd much rather have that all in one place.


Every single one of those things can be done on a cell phone. That's the direction things are going. Until you get to a full sized full featured laptop computer, all of those devices carry the same disadvantages that cell phones do (smaller keyboards, non-standard displays, cumbersome mouse controls, etc). But they're about 4 times the size of a cell phone.

More to the point, everyone who has one of those devices is also going to have a cell phone. So. Why not spend the money on a more expensive cell phone that can handle web browsing, mp3 playing, video playing, text chatting, GPS activities, *and* of course, phone calls.

Quote:
If you want to do some heavier typing, there are always bluetooth keyboards (which you'd need to get for your cell phone as well).


Yup. So why not just use the cell phone?

Quote:
The only thing I really see lacking on it right now, for personal use, is a reliable way to keep track of your finances. It syncs with my Google calendar. There is even development for an office suite so you can do real word processing, spreadsheets, so on so forth.


This is application specific of course. My cell phone syncs up with office. So I get my email, calendar, etc on my phone. All of the technical issues with using a non-standard interface and display exist in both cases. That's a wash. It's just a matter of programming to deal with the specific applications involved.

Quote:
It really comes down what you're willing to pay.


Well. And carry around. The way the tech is going, there's basically nothing you can do with one of those "tablet" type devices that you can't do with a cell phone (and the few gaps are shrinking fast). Unless you actually have a real need to have a 6 inch screen or something. Most of the market will either do fine with a small screen on a cell phone type device *or* they need a larger screen and would prefer a laptop.


That's just my opinion. I don't see this being a huge market in the next 5 years. If anything I see this shrinking dramatically as smaller devices that can be put in a pocket replace them completely.
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#37 Feb 15 2008 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
Well. And carry around. The way the tech is going, there's basically nothing you can do with one of those "tablet" type devices that you can't do with a cell phone (and the few gaps are shrinking fast). Unless you actually have a real need to have a 6 inch screen or something. Most of the market will either do fine with a small screen on a cell phone type device *or* they need a larger screen and would prefer a laptop.


Oh. I see what the issue is. You seem to think that we're talking about tablet PCs. My web tablet is the size of my Nintendo DS folded up. It's slightly bigger than an iPhone. Not to mention, the cell phones that have the full capabilities of this run twice if not more. Honestly, I don't want to pay that much and have to extend to a two year contract on top of it.
#38 Feb 15 2008 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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Melody the Eccentric wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Well. And carry around. The way the tech is going, there's basically nothing you can do with one of those "tablet" type devices that you can't do with a cell phone (and the few gaps are shrinking fast). Unless you actually have a real need to have a 6 inch screen or something. Most of the market will either do fine with a small screen on a cell phone type device *or* they need a larger screen and would prefer a laptop.


Oh. I see what the issue is. You seem to think that we're talking about tablet PCs. My web tablet is the size of my Nintendo DS folded up. It's slightly bigger than an iPhone. Not to mention, the cell phones that have the full capabilities of this run twice if not more. Honestly, I don't want to pay that much and have to extend to a two year contract on top of it.


To be fair though, that's what the article writer was talking about as well.

Yes. I'm aware that there are many small devices that fill this role. My point is that I think that the author is going in the wrong direction with this. I think that those devices will merge with cell/ipod/whatever devices over time. It's already happening. Basically, you'll carry around a small device on which you'll place phone calls, receive and send text messages, access email, use some web functionality, sync up with some form of server (whether your home PC, a work email/outlook service, mp3 library, whatever), and run some *basic* applications locally. Oh. And GPS, maps, directions, etc...


This is not encroaching on the laptop at all though. I don't disagree that as technology improves, we'll be stuffing more and more capability into increasingly smaller devices. My issue is with the idea that this will affect laptop use. I simply don't think so. Right now, people use laptops almost exclusively because they want/need a full sized interface and display and because they want/need a full "native" OS, complete with standard peripheral connections and whatnot. They want something that they can carry with them when traveling, set on their desktop at work, set on their desktop at home, or set on a table in a conference room and use in the same manner in all those locations.

While I've seen many small devices cross over in terms of usage (PDAs that play music and videos, MP3 players that sync up to your scheduler, and cell phones with GPS devices), I just have not seen the same sort of cross development with regard to laptops. Hence, I think he's going in the wrong direction. All the small devices will converge towards single "small" handheld items that users can do all the things they each currently do individually. The iPhone is a great example of this at work and I expect to see more (and better) implementations going forward.

Go walk around S. Korea or Japan sometime (if you get the chance). They're about 5 years ahead of us in terms of consumer usages of these devices already. The mantra there is to stuff as much useful "on the go" functions into as small a device as possible. This isn't even really speculation on my part. This is the direction this is going. And it has nothing at all to do with laptops or replacing them in anyway.
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#39 Feb 15 2008 at 10:46 PM Rating: Default
I'm posting from my HTC Mogul 6800. I have to say I use this phone more often than I use my laptop. If I ever have to replace my laptop I'll definitely consider getting a touchscreen.
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