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#27 Jan 18 2008 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Did anyone else get the mental picture of shiney pennies being scattered into the midst of crowds of desparate peasants by feudal lords?
#28 Jan 18 2008 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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Did anyone else get the mental picture of shiney pennies being scattered into the midst of crowds of desparate peasants by feudal lords?


No, I got a mental picture of thousands of naked women throwing tiny pickles at me as I stood atop a pyramid in flowing sungod robes. That always happens when Nexa's coming to visit, though.

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#29 Jan 18 2008 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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Truly you lead a rich life (in your own head). [insert smiley here]
#30 Jan 18 2008 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Totem wrote:
Hey, if someone wants to throw free money at me, have at it.
That's nice but it doesn't answer the question of why Bush's amazing economy, the one you said should set him up in the Hall of Great Presidents, should lead to our fearless leader scrambling to bail out the boat.


It's not an indicator of economic problems. By that logic, every time an interest rate is changed it's an indicator of economic problems. Nope. It's just one of the many tools that the government has to keep the economy running smoothly.

And before someone tosses out the worn out "but conservatives are against demand side spending!!!" argument, that's not the case at all. We're against a policy that ignores the importance of the supply side on long term economic growth in favor of massive demand side spending in the form of entitlement programs (so the government can control what the money is spent on really). Handing out rebate checks puts that money back into the hands of consumers, but gives them the freedom to choose what they spend it on (which is absolutely consistent with conservative economic concepts when done at an appropriate time).
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#31 Jan 18 2008 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seems to me you should rebate more to the wealthy since they paid more taxes. And they know how to spend it better anyway. A flat rebate just isn't fair.



#32 Jan 18 2008 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:

Seems to me you should rebate more to the wealthy since they paid more taxes. And they know how to spend it better anyway. A flat rebate just isn't fair.


Nah. The wealthy would just add it to their investment portfolio, which is great and all, but presumably they want this to be spent on consumption. Handing out large numbers of checks to the masses is a great way to do that, since the vast majority of them will simply cash the check and go out and spend it on DVDs and sporting equipment (or whatever).
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#33 Jan 18 2008 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's not an indicator of economic problems.
Right. Tell your president that because he disagrees.

Or maybe parse his words a thousand times over until they mean something completely different.
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#34 Jan 18 2008 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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We're against a policy that ignores the importance of the supply side on long term economic growth in favor of massive demand side spending in the form of entitlement programs


Like a prescription drug benefit? That sort of thing?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#35 Jan 18 2008 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

We're against a policy that ignores the importance of the supply side on long term economic growth in favor of massive demand side spending in the form of entitlement programs


Like a prescription drug benefit? That sort of thing?


I'm sorry, what part of "ignores" did you not get?

Conservative economic policies understand that both demand and supply side components are important and utilize tools from both boxes to keep the economy healthy.

Liberal economic policies require that only tools from the demand side are used, since their ideology cannot allow them to admit that the supply side components are important.


So. Conservatives using demand side processes is *not* in violation of their economic policies. It's the fact that they *also* use supply side processes that makes them different from Liberals. Pointing out when Republicans use demand side tools doesn't mean anything. It's not either/or for us. It only is for you...
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#36 Jan 18 2008 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
All I wanna know is:

"Where's my ************** movie check?"
#38 Jan 18 2008 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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The latest I've read suggests they've downsized it to about $500 now. But they haven't created a real plan yet.
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#39 Jan 18 2008 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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remind me to buy more stock in nvidia right about then.
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#40 Jan 18 2008 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
trickybeck wrote:

Seems to me you should rebate more to the wealthy since they paid more taxes. And they know how to spend it better anyway. A flat rebate just isn't fair.


Nah. The wealthy would just add it to their investment portfolio, which is great and all, but presumably they want this to be spent on consumption. Handing out large numbers of checks to the masses is a great way to do that, since the vast majority of them will simply cash the check and go out and spend it on DVDs and sporting equipment (or whatever).

a-woosh
#41 Jan 18 2008 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:

Nah. The wealthy would just add it to their investment portfolio, which is great and all, but presumably they want this to be spent on consumption. Handing out large numbers of checks to the masses is a great way to do that, since the vast majority of them will simply cash the check and go out and spend it on DVDs and sporting equipment (or whatever).
Yay, lets borrow more money from China so we can buy more of their crap.

I'd rather see something a bit more targetted.

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#42 Jan 18 2008 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
Elinda, Star Breaker wrote:
gbaji wrote:

Nah. The wealthy would just add it to their investment portfolio, which is great and all, but presumably they want this to be spent on consumption. Handing out large numbers of checks to the masses is a great way to do that, since the vast majority of them will simply cash the check and go out and spend it on DVDs and sporting equipment (or whatever).
Yay, lets borrow more money from China so we can buy more of their crap.

I'd rather see something a bit more targetted.



MrKatie is currently picking out a stock he'd like to invest in. This is exactly where it will go.
#43 Jan 19 2008 at 5:44 AM Rating: Decent
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So. Conservatives using demand side processes is *not* in violation of their economic policies.


So to sum up, anything Conservatives do is good for the economy, even when it's the opposite of "Conservative" and you still after all these years haven't begun to have even a 8th grader's understanding of economics.

Check.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#44 Jan 19 2008 at 7:59 AM Rating: Default
Are you trying to say that the U.S. doesn't have the money?

We wouldn't have the money if we actually bought protection for our troops over in Iraq.

#45 Jan 19 2008 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey, if Bush wants to keep throwing free money at me, I'll vote for him again!
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#46 Jan 19 2008 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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He must have seen that Futurama where Nixon gave out $300 tax rebates. He wants to be better then Nixon so he is offering more.

Personally if our government has that much money to throw around why not use some of it to fund national health care which this country needs. Middle class person who doesn't have good health care can go in debit for the rest of his/her life if something happens to them.

Or how about just lowering the amount of taxes we pay overall?
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#47 Jan 19 2008 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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He must have seen that Futurama where Nixon gave out $300 tax rebates.


Hi. It was based on the $300 rebate checks that were mailed out in 2001. When Bush was first elected.

I know people don't study history, but it was seven ******* years ago, Christ.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#48 Jan 19 2008 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
What's our deficit at now?


Add a new red line.
#49 Jan 19 2008 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Column in the Wall Street Journal today stating that, historically, people who have received these rebates in the past do not help the economy by spending them. Rather, they either save them or use them to pay down debt. It concludes that it probably won't hurt anything but anyone who thinks that it'll help is delusional.
The WSJ wrote:
But in 1974, the White House was keen on the idea of cutting taxes to stimulate private spending. Since it was feared that a permanent tax cut might be inflationary, President Gerald Ford and the Democratic Congress agreed on a one-shot tax rebate. It was thought that cash-strapped consumers would take their government checks and immediately run out and spend them on food, clothing and other necessities.
[...]
One dissenter was economist Milton Friedman. His research had led him to conclude that consumer spending was less a function of liquidity than something he called "permanent income." [...] [C]onsumers didn't immediately spend windfalls. They kept spending on an even keel until they achieved a promotion at work, or other increase in their long-term income expectations.

Thus Friedman predicted that the $100 to $200 checks disbursed by the Treasury Department in the spring of 1975 would have a minimal impact on spending, because they did not alter peoples' permanent income. Most likely, people would save the money or pay down debt, which is the same thing. Very little of the rebate would cause consumers to buy things they wouldn't otherwise have bought in the near term.

Subsequent studies by MIT economists Franco Modigliani and Charles Steindel, and Alan Blinder of Princeton, showed that Friedman's prediction was correct. The 1975 rebate had very little impact on spending and much less than a permanent tax cut -- which would change peoples' concept of their permanent income -- of similar magnitude.

In 2001 -- despite the thoroughness and general acceptance of these studies -- Congress and the White House once again chose a one-shot tax rebate to deal with an economic slowdown in 2001.

To his credit, Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill cautioned against the rebate.[...] But President George W. Bush overruled his Treasury secretary and approved the rebate idea. Checks of $300 to $600 per taxpayer were sent out in the late summer. Contemporaneous polls by Gallup, Bloomberg and the University of Michigan all found that the vast bulk of consumers expected to save the money or use it to pay bills. Subsequent studies confirmed these forecasts.

In short, there is virtually no empirical evidence that tax rebates are an effective response to economic slowdowns.

A new rebate probably won't do much harm. But anyone who thinks it will prevent a recession -- if one is actually in the pipeline, which is not at all certain -- is dreaming.
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#50 Jan 19 2008 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
anyone who thinks that it'll help is delusional


It will help my computer become more shiny. Anyone who is against that is a damn dirty communist!
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#51 Jan 20 2008 at 2:37 AM Rating: Decent
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
anyone who thinks that it'll help is delusional


It will help my computer become more shiny. Anyone who is against that is a damn dirty communist!



Actually, giving money away is kinda the concept behind communism/socialism. Just sayin'!
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