Nobby wrote:
So I'm wondering. I know some here have faith (of whichever persuasion). Any of you gone from really believing to not believing and back again?
No I don't believe in starting bad habits, much less going back to them.
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So I'm wondering. I know some here have faith (of whichever persuasion). Any of you gone from really believing to not believing and back again?
No I don't believe in starting bad habits, much less going back to them.
I was raised by a Catholic and an agnostic. Whether it was pure apathy or simply future kindness, I was spared church as a child. Indeed the only time I was to attend was for funerals or weddings. My Mother now attends a church every week whereas it used to only fall on the traditional guilt ridden days ie Easter Sunday and Christmas Day. My Father found 'Gods unconditional love' in the form of a Baptist church shortly before his coil ceased.
I like to believe that my path was set for me to make my own choice (I wasn't even baptized unlike my Bro). I went from a bitterly certain Atheist to a more moderate Agnostic. I have no clue as to what goes on in this universe. I can speculate the little my mind grasps around such subjects as Cosmology or Quantum Physics, but I really have no idea what lies under everything and how it got there.
Digression aside, I think that much like the average persons thoughts and physical appearance, a persons core beliefs can change many times due to any number of events.
To sum: Yes I think you can fall back into faith.
edit: and yes my punctuation is terrible this morning.
Edited, Jan 8th 2008 9:42am by Paskil
I like to believe that my path was set for me to make my own choice (I wasn't even baptized unlike my Bro). I went from a bitterly certain Atheist to a more moderate Agnostic. I have no clue as to what goes on in this universe. I can speculate the little my mind grasps around such subjects as Cosmology or Quantum Physics, but I really have no idea what lies under everything and how it got there.
Digression aside, I think that much like the average persons thoughts and physical appearance, a persons core beliefs can change many times due to any number of events.
To sum: Yes I think you can fall back into faith.
edit: and yes my punctuation is terrible this morning.
Edited, Jan 8th 2008 9:42am by Paskil
Rate ups all around to combat the work of teh Devil.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
#31REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 1:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So I'm wondering. I know some here have faith (of whichever persuasion). Any of you gone from really believing to not believing and back again?
I was raised with an awareness of many religions since I can remember, but never any sort of censorship for them. I think a lot of Hispanic Catholics view religion in a fundamentally different way. It's not something you really preach. It's more like your family: you're born into it and may not always agree, but it's there and it never leaves. You don't equate your religion with your Church any more than you equate your landlord with Home.
I was never taught that the Church or the Bible were infallible, and I was steeped from my childhood in the wonder and beauty and magic of my ancestry and my land and its traditions, and taught to mix them. Mistakes were made by people, distinctions were made by people, and God was a feeling that you recognized because it was an integral part not only of your Sunday, but of your every day (St. Judas on his head, a muttered prayer to St. Cecilia during thunderstorms). I have a brother who is an atheist, and a sister who feels as I do. I go to church more so than my mother did, but it's because I feel closest to The Universal We when I am singing. I like my faith because I am an artist, and it is visually moving to me. I get peace from contemplating the selfless act that led to the creation of a lovingly crafted item. I am constantly moved by people's ability to give the best of themselves in the name of Something Good, but it shouldn't rule your life.
I think so much time is wasted on the Church as an entity. The feeling of being connected is so fleeting and precious and so different in every person and culture, does it really matter where it comes from?
I was never taught that the Church or the Bible were infallible, and I was steeped from my childhood in the wonder and beauty and magic of my ancestry and my land and its traditions, and taught to mix them. Mistakes were made by people, distinctions were made by people, and God was a feeling that you recognized because it was an integral part not only of your Sunday, but of your every day (St. Judas on his head, a muttered prayer to St. Cecilia during thunderstorms). I have a brother who is an atheist, and a sister who feels as I do. I go to church more so than my mother did, but it's because I feel closest to The Universal We when I am singing. I like my faith because I am an artist, and it is visually moving to me. I get peace from contemplating the selfless act that led to the creation of a lovingly crafted item. I am constantly moved by people's ability to give the best of themselves in the name of Something Good, but it shouldn't rule your life.
I think so much time is wasted on the Church as an entity. The feeling of being connected is so fleeting and precious and so different in every person and culture, does it really matter where it comes from?
Atomicflea wrote:
I think so much time is wasted on the Church as an entity. The feeling of being connected is so fleeting and precious and so different in every person and culture, does it really matter where it comes from?
As for previous responses - Yes there's an element of reversive auto-response in kneeling for
As a child I was only taken to Church for funerals, christenings, weddings and christmas. In my mid-teens I developed a taste for prayer and for church (I was attending communion while my family all had their Sunday Lie-in)
I'll not comment on my views about church or religion - they're not the point I was making.
I do believe that Matty/Mark/Luke & Jack described a man who set out a set of values that match mine - foregiveness, tolerance etc. That never went away.
I won't go into the stresses I'm facing, but right now I'm back-to-the-wall, and today I took a time-out in prayer. Felt good.
For the last few years, I'd have taken a quiet time for meditation but I was comfortable praying today. . . Go figure
Allah H'u Akhbar
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Nobby wrote:
For the last few years, I'd have taken a quiet time for meditation but I was comfortable praying today. . . Go figure
Atomicflea wrote:
Nobby wrote:
For the last few years, I'd have taken a quiet time for meditation but I was comfortable praying today. . . Go figure
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Nobby wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
Nobby wrote:
For the last few years, I'd have taken a quiet time for meditation but I was comfortable praying today. . . Go figure
Atomicflea wrote:
Are you coming on to me?
League, of, out, my.
And I wouldn't risk Joph sacrificing another tea bag in my name.
Atomicflea wrote:
Fifty Hail Marys!
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Save some of those Hail Mary's. A certain guilt level must be met before hitting the confessional, or the Priest makes you come back at a later date.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Omegavegeta wrote:
the Priest makes you come back at a later date.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Nobby wrote:
He made me promise to not call it a 'date'
Just as long as you repent aftwerwards, it's all good.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Nexa wrote:
I've never believed in God, but I tried to for a while.
Ditto
I have faith in positives.....
Positive thoughts, positive actions and positive werds. And I think I've come around to the idea of all 'faith' originating in the theories of quantum mechanics.
Everything is connected to everything else.
'Energy' is able to change form, but remains constant in its existance. Its up to each of us to choose what to do with the energies we come into contact with and how we process them and pass them on to others, or to our environment.
Contemplative places (churches, barrows, forests, the transition between land and sea for example) allow us to actually be aware of the energies that we are not just surrounded by, but are actualy made of. Call that awareness a state of meditation, or an inner peace bought on by prayer, whatever you like.
An awareness of your personal connection to everything around you and within yourself, and an understanding of your own unique participation in the universe where every action and thought has a consequence on a quantum level is IMO the foundation of 'faith'. Its this feeling of 'connection' and 'purpose' that has led to the mis-guided explanation that we are connected to God and His purpose.
Faith in a 'concious' (whatever that would mean) all knowing being, who watches over a certain group of 'believers' is an explanation that has allowed all sorts of manipulative people throughout history to control the ignorant and easily led masses into behaviour patterns that suited the manipulators. By encouraging the feelings and thoughts that people already had (of 'connection' and higher purpose') by building places of worship and staffing them with charismatic figureheads and performing complicated rituals, and then threatening the said masses with who-knows-what if they did not comply to the rigid behaviours of the cult in question is an exercise in cynical behavioural control and has no connection to faith whatsoever.
And that is what has led to the world of strife that humans have always found themselves in. By taking peoples natural affinity with the energies that flow around and thru us, and then aggressivly controlling that flow, 'religeon' has done more to suppress 'faith' than anything else.
While I do agree that a building such as the great cathedrals of europe or the himalayan temples or the mosques of the ME can and do inspire feelings of faith, I don't think its the building. Its the peace that they produce that allows us to become aware.
I have never had a Religeon, and never will. But if I have a faith at all, its a faith in the quantum theory about reality being the creation of the observer.
In short....we are all God.
(except for politicians. They are all cnuts)
Happy new year
Positive thoughts, positive actions and positive werds. And I think I've come around to the idea of all 'faith' originating in the theories of quantum mechanics.
Everything is connected to everything else.
'Energy' is able to change form, but remains constant in its existance. Its up to each of us to choose what to do with the energies we come into contact with and how we process them and pass them on to others, or to our environment.
Contemplative places (churches, barrows, forests, the transition between land and sea for example) allow us to actually be aware of the energies that we are not just surrounded by, but are actualy made of. Call that awareness a state of meditation, or an inner peace bought on by prayer, whatever you like.
An awareness of your personal connection to everything around you and within yourself, and an understanding of your own unique participation in the universe where every action and thought has a consequence on a quantum level is IMO the foundation of 'faith'. Its this feeling of 'connection' and 'purpose' that has led to the mis-guided explanation that we are connected to God and His purpose.
Faith in a 'concious' (whatever that would mean) all knowing being, who watches over a certain group of 'believers' is an explanation that has allowed all sorts of manipulative people throughout history to control the ignorant and easily led masses into behaviour patterns that suited the manipulators. By encouraging the feelings and thoughts that people already had (of 'connection' and higher purpose') by building places of worship and staffing them with charismatic figureheads and performing complicated rituals, and then threatening the said masses with who-knows-what if they did not comply to the rigid behaviours of the cult in question is an exercise in cynical behavioural control and has no connection to faith whatsoever.
And that is what has led to the world of strife that humans have always found themselves in. By taking peoples natural affinity with the energies that flow around and thru us, and then aggressivly controlling that flow, 'religeon' has done more to suppress 'faith' than anything else.
While I do agree that a building such as the great cathedrals of europe or the himalayan temples or the mosques of the ME can and do inspire feelings of faith, I don't think its the building. Its the peace that they produce that allows us to become aware.
I have never had a Religeon, and never will. But if I have a faith at all, its a faith in the quantum theory about reality being the creation of the observer.
In short....we are all God.
(except for politicians. They are all cnuts)
Happy new year
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
....:smells a sientology pitch......
since man could walk upright, there has always been a perception of something greater than ourselves. true or not. you can find God like beings drawn on cave walls dating back before the earliest civilizations. people worshiped everything from animals to solar bodies to water and even the ground they walked on. true or not.
it is inherant of man to look for something more. its called hope. we are the eternal optimists. hope of something more. hope for some reward for having values and ideals. hope when we look around at our current state and hate what we see like in times of war. hope for something better.
there are also many things that happen that are beyond our understanding. we try to catagorize them, define them, and when we cant, we label them with the same tag we gave to our hope. a God being. true or not. people that can heal with a touch. it has happened in many places of the world. some recessive gean mabe? or is it the work of a diety? hauntings that are very very real for some people weather others believe them or not. is there another plane of existance? is it just something we cant understand right now like the concept of a round world? or is it the work of a diety, or anti diety? or is it just another box of fear we use to justify holding values to others?
all walks of man have given hope a name in all time periods. all men, from the first to walk upright to your average rocket scientist have always been searching for something more or something greater than ourselves.
why?
probably because we dont like what we see when we look at ourselves. mabe because we want a reason to go on as opposed to knowing anything we do wont make any differance because its over when we die. lights out. a reason to strive to go on. some....hope ....for the future.
or mabe because we really do have a knoledge hard wired into our brains that there is something more but we just cant give it a name. like when people speak in toungues right before they die without ever hearing it spoken before when they were alive. something we KNOW is there, but just cant find it. something hardwired into our genes but currently just beyond our understanding.
regaurdless of peoples beliefs, man has been looking for something greater than himself since he could walk upright. reguardles of weather its just percieved, or is actually real, and weather you believe it or not, that search for something greater than ourselves has shaped our entire world.
personally, i CHOOSE to believe. i would rather live my pathetic life full of hope and comfort believeing the things that really matter in my life like my familey wil survive beyond the meger time we have on thisa rock than go through my life knowing none of it means anything. we eat, we sheit, we die, the end.
i would CHOOSE to live my life full of hope than full of.....nothing. true or not. we only get a limited amount of time here. you make of it what you CHOOSE to make of it. religion has been very good to humanity reguardless of all the pain some people cause in its name. it gives the world of man something they need to keep moving foward.
hope.
since man could walk upright, there has always been a perception of something greater than ourselves. true or not. you can find God like beings drawn on cave walls dating back before the earliest civilizations. people worshiped everything from animals to solar bodies to water and even the ground they walked on. true or not.
it is inherant of man to look for something more. its called hope. we are the eternal optimists. hope of something more. hope for some reward for having values and ideals. hope when we look around at our current state and hate what we see like in times of war. hope for something better.
there are also many things that happen that are beyond our understanding. we try to catagorize them, define them, and when we cant, we label them with the same tag we gave to our hope. a God being. true or not. people that can heal with a touch. it has happened in many places of the world. some recessive gean mabe? or is it the work of a diety? hauntings that are very very real for some people weather others believe them or not. is there another plane of existance? is it just something we cant understand right now like the concept of a round world? or is it the work of a diety, or anti diety? or is it just another box of fear we use to justify holding values to others?
all walks of man have given hope a name in all time periods. all men, from the first to walk upright to your average rocket scientist have always been searching for something more or something greater than ourselves.
why?
probably because we dont like what we see when we look at ourselves. mabe because we want a reason to go on as opposed to knowing anything we do wont make any differance because its over when we die. lights out. a reason to strive to go on. some....hope ....for the future.
or mabe because we really do have a knoledge hard wired into our brains that there is something more but we just cant give it a name. like when people speak in toungues right before they die without ever hearing it spoken before when they were alive. something we KNOW is there, but just cant find it. something hardwired into our genes but currently just beyond our understanding.
regaurdless of peoples beliefs, man has been looking for something greater than himself since he could walk upright. reguardles of weather its just percieved, or is actually real, and weather you believe it or not, that search for something greater than ourselves has shaped our entire world.
personally, i CHOOSE to believe. i would rather live my pathetic life full of hope and comfort believeing the things that really matter in my life like my familey wil survive beyond the meger time we have on thisa rock than go through my life knowing none of it means anything. we eat, we sheit, we die, the end.
i would CHOOSE to live my life full of hope than full of.....nothing. true or not. we only get a limited amount of time here. you make of it what you CHOOSE to make of it. religion has been very good to humanity reguardless of all the pain some people cause in its name. it gives the world of man something they need to keep moving foward.
hope.
As I am reading I notice a lot of peoples equation of faith=God. But why does it have to be that way? And whose God? What is God? The idea is different to every person, even if they follow the same "religion". I have faith, but not in a Godlike person. Maybe more of a Godforce, but nothing that remotely resembles a human with thoughts, emotions, etc. More of an idea that everything is connected and what one does cause reactions for the whole. But my faith is entirely different than the average Joe. Does that make our faith different? or in the end is it just that we all need faith in something to have a feeling of purpose, no matter what that faith may be for: God, nature, family, people, etc.
faith and hope.
without them, its a dark dark world without purpose or meaning. eat, sheit and die, the end. and all you have to do is CHOOSE weather you want to live in the dark or frolic in the light. isnt it ironic that the very things that plagued thinkers 1000 years ago are still at the top of the list of concerns today? take radical islam for example. a carbon copy of the roman catholic church 1000 years ago.
is it real? or not?
our forefathers had the foresight to completly side step this trap that has plagued many nations before it with the seperation of church and state. and yet.......we have a election process riddeled with the same basic concerns. even athiest or whackos who think God is some sort of space alien like in scientology are forced to deal with the very questions and concerns that plagued mankind since he could first walk upright.
where did i come from? how did i get here? where am i going?
and the biggie, the ones that probably spawned an inate desire for something greater to show us the way...........
where am i going? why should i care?
"religion is the opiate of the masses" a quote from some famous person i cant remember atm. the pacifier that makes individuals manipulable, controllable, tame and domesticated. a flock of followers just waiting for someone to lead them....somewhere......
online games are a good example. the number of players who just wait untill someone gathers them in a group and leads them somewhere is significantly larger than the number of people who do the gathering. its been that way since the dawn of man. most people just waiting around to be led. sheep. its why WoW is exploding and EQ and other group orintated games are not.
is it hard wired in our brain to be followers to some greater good we can not percieve yet? or is it just a matter of biology. constantly needing the nuturing of a father or mother, something ingrained into our personalities by the great length of time a human nutures a child compared to other animals?
is God real? or a manifistation of ingrained needs developed by the amount of time it takes to ween a human child from its parents?
the people written about in the Bible were real. their significance is in question as it will always be i guess, but the people were real. the places were real.
is God real? or a manifestation of some ingrained need ?
i CHOOSE to believe. it makes my life a whole lot richer. i go through life in ignorant bliss not believeing my entire life will amount to eating, sheiting, and dieing. and my kids grow up believing there is hope and purpose in their lives.
for the price of.....well.....some atheist shaking their head at me saying "pity the fool". hurt me.
without them, its a dark dark world without purpose or meaning. eat, sheit and die, the end. and all you have to do is CHOOSE weather you want to live in the dark or frolic in the light. isnt it ironic that the very things that plagued thinkers 1000 years ago are still at the top of the list of concerns today? take radical islam for example. a carbon copy of the roman catholic church 1000 years ago.
is it real? or not?
our forefathers had the foresight to completly side step this trap that has plagued many nations before it with the seperation of church and state. and yet.......we have a election process riddeled with the same basic concerns. even athiest or whackos who think God is some sort of space alien like in scientology are forced to deal with the very questions and concerns that plagued mankind since he could first walk upright.
where did i come from? how did i get here? where am i going?
and the biggie, the ones that probably spawned an inate desire for something greater to show us the way...........
where am i going? why should i care?
"religion is the opiate of the masses" a quote from some famous person i cant remember atm. the pacifier that makes individuals manipulable, controllable, tame and domesticated. a flock of followers just waiting for someone to lead them....somewhere......
online games are a good example. the number of players who just wait untill someone gathers them in a group and leads them somewhere is significantly larger than the number of people who do the gathering. its been that way since the dawn of man. most people just waiting around to be led. sheep. its why WoW is exploding and EQ and other group orintated games are not.
is it hard wired in our brain to be followers to some greater good we can not percieve yet? or is it just a matter of biology. constantly needing the nuturing of a father or mother, something ingrained into our personalities by the great length of time a human nutures a child compared to other animals?
is God real? or a manifistation of ingrained needs developed by the amount of time it takes to ween a human child from its parents?
the people written about in the Bible were real. their significance is in question as it will always be i guess, but the people were real. the places were real.
is God real? or a manifestation of some ingrained need ?
i CHOOSE to believe. it makes my life a whole lot richer. i go through life in ignorant bliss not believeing my entire life will amount to eating, sheiting, and dieing. and my kids grow up believing there is hope and purpose in their lives.
for the price of.....well.....some atheist shaking their head at me saying "pity the fool". hurt me.
dsd wrote:
As I am reading I notice a lot of peoples equation of faith=God. But why does it have to be that way?
Because that was the impression conveyed by Nobby's original post and the answers have largely reflected the discussion flowing in that direction. If you want to ask us if we've ever had faith in the weather and it's benevolence, start the thread. If you want to ask us who's god is God, start the thread and ask. Don't make this discussion more complicated than it needs to be. Shadowrelm already composed two tomes for the dust bin. Inviting gbaji to pontificate is just a bad idea.
Edited, Jan 10th 2008 12:13pm by MoebiusLord
Quote:
So I'm wondering. I know some here have faith (of whichever persuasion). Any of you gone from really believing to not believing and back again?
Is anyone truly able to shake what they learned in their childhood? And I mean truly get rid of it.
I was baptised, had both communions but other than that, my parents never bothered much with religion. I don't think I can recall a single discussion regarding religion in my entire family, not one.
We were all either very good Catholics (of the "shut up and do/believe what you're told" variety that died out about half a century ago but which is slowly returning), or most likely none really interested in the topic. Pragmatic family.
Still, I spent about 16 years in Catholic schools and it's hard to forget all they taught me. That ofcourse just turned me into an agnostic, over the years more of an ignostic. Don't know and I don't care. It doesn't matter to me anymore, I'll live my life the way I feel I have to. Which also happens to be within the laws of my country so that's handy.
then I guess I did not read the OT correctly and would have to change my original answer to no. I was just under the assumption it was on faith in something that made life meaningful, not faith in just God.
Mistress DSD wrote:
then I guess I did not read the OT correctly and would have to change my original answer to no. I was just under the assumption it was on faith in something that made life meaningful, not faith in just God.
But I suppose it applies to any life-centric faith in Allah, Vishnu or any recognised deity.
When you've had a faith that is at the centre of your thinking, decision-making and reason for being, can you ever get it back. That was the question.
Not to offend others, but I don't count 'general faith in life forces' or the current trend for "Pick'n'Mix" cocktails of neo-pagan Hinduist Zen faux Islam.
I've never lost my belief that the principles of Christ's teachings are a worthy set of principles, but at one time I believed in His deity, resurrection, and ability to give eternal redemption and resurrection to the innocent and the truly repentant.
So far, prayer doesn't give me the serenity it once did, but it is soothing and I'll see where this goes.
Pax Domini sit semper uobiscum
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Nobby wrote:
When you've had a faith that is at the centre of your thinking, decision-making and reason for being, can you ever get it back. That was the question.
Edited, Jan 11th 2008 1:59am by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
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