Ooooh a Spanking!Follow

While it is still safe for us adults to spank one another, for the time being, the govt of Massachusetts are debating today on whether or not spanking your child should be illegal. Oh, and all the other goodies too

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I guess it's a good thing I moved out of there. Now I can keep whipping my boys! In fact, I bet they encourage it here!

It's nice to see the legislation receiving attention; I do hope the bill passes.

While I don't believe spanking to be cruel at all I do think it gives parents the false idea that their children are learning correct behavior rather than being a very temporary solution to long term issues.

Nope that was actually one of the first thoughts that came to mind. I can just see older kids upset that mom or dad wont let them do xyz, and run off to another adult, guidance counselor, etc, and say they are being spanked And it makes me wonder what position that puts the parent in

A larger problem in regard to the parent or the child? Or the connection between them associated by discipline?

A good point is made, many teens don't immediately understand the consequences of getting their parents in trouble, hence why so many parents already fear administering any form of discipline on their children. It's not that they don't understand right from wrong, it's that they don't immediately associate the type of trouble they are capable of getting their parents into now based on false accusations due to their own innate stubborn & selfish attitudes (a behavioral stage almost all teens go through).

I'm not one to immediately administer physical punishment on my children. However, I do believe that it can be necessary. A child/teen needs to be aware of consequence. Without that, I think that todays population of children/teens reflects the effect of a lesser understanding of consequence due to parents growing limited ability to administer punishment. This just tops the cake though...I can't wash my child's mouth out with soap if they use vulgar, inappropriate language? Will "A Christmas Story" now be inappropriate holiday viewing material because mom washes Ralphies mouth out with soap?

Certainly there's a line to cross between punishment/discipline and abuse. But who's to decide? My father beat my *** with a 2x4 when I was 6 because I prank called 911. Harsh? Yes. A little over-the-top? Maybe. Did I ever make a stupid mistake like that again? Hell no. Do I believe my fathers methods to be wrong? It got the job done, didn't it? And I have a perfectly normal relationship with him...so I don't necessarily think there's really anything wrong with what he did (aside from not being able to sit right for a week afterwards).

Personally I think corporal punishment has to be an age appropriate punishment. As a child ages, they become more able to understand less immediate consequences, or rather more cerebral. My parents stopped spanking me when I laughed at my mom one day. From then on it was hard labor or taking the distributer cap off of my car. Teens may be a little to big for spankings, but that's for the parent to decide whether or not its still effective.

If they pass a law like that around here, I might as well just hand the keys to the house over to my son. He already thinks he runs the show around here, and sometimes a swat on the behind is the only thing that will remind him that he's not the boss.

sassy-pants 5 year olds...

I can see some abuse, but I really believe the purpose of this law is not to prosecute but rather to suggest. It is rather difficult to enforce.

I don't see spanking as cruel or harmful to a child. I don't think it is bad parenting; just ineffective parenting. I would hope the consequence for violation would be a misdemeanor or slap on the wrist. I think the legislation serves the same purpose as a public advisory campaign, as a way for the government to curtail spanking.

It could be on either end, but clearly they don't have a completely healthy relationship is not in place.

I believe you would have a quite difficult time trying to prove today's teens are more criminal than yesteryear's due to a decrease in corporal punishment, but I welcome the attempt.

My opinion on spanking (reiterated from earlier) is not that it is abusive, but that it is ineffective. I've been spanked a few times; it neither is overly painful nor traumatic. It doesn't hurt a child at all, but I do not believe it helps him either.

I think spanking is completely illusionary in effect. There exist plenty of children who have grown into lawful citizens without ever having been spanked, so clearly it is not a necessary part of parenting. But how can you even be sure it does anything at all. If something else entirely can lead children to grow up lawful then how can you be certain that spanking has any long term effect at all?

I think the impression comes from the immediate results of corporal punishment. If a child makes a mess and receives a strong spanking the one thing in the world he is not going to do for the next fifteen minutes is make a mess again.

But if he continues to not make a mess for weeks after does it really have anything to do with the spanking, or could it be another reason such as the disappointment and frustration of a parent?

Spanking is a form of operant conditioning, and any behavior modified through operant conditioning will eventually become extinct if not reinforced. If a child raised through spanking grows up to be obedient long after the spanking has stopped it probably has to do with some other factor in the parenting (such as an understanding of the rules or approval) rather than spanking. He probably long forgot any values a parent has taught him through spanking.

Edited, Nov 28th 2007 9:26am by Allegory

It sounds like the law was really be intent upon 'inflicting pain' versus spanking, swatting, draggin by the ear, or whatever. That makes it harder from me to dismiss.

As societal beings, it seems we're reaching a point where we've decided that inflicting pain is inhumane. The issue is cropping up all over the place.

Can we decide we want a society that does not rely on physical pain as a method to a means, and yet, at the same time, freely allow parents to use it as punishment on their kids?

All that aside, 'spanking' was never about the pain to me..it really doesn't hurt much, it was more of a statment of urgency and/or embarrassment.

Yes, but don't forget to shrinky them first.




Edited, Nov 28th 2007 4:32pm by Elinda

The comparison is not in a criminal sense, it's in a behavioral sense. Criminal action amongst teenagers is the least of the concern here, and only partially associated to the problem with discipline. A generalized statement could be "Criminal teens are more apt to stem from dysfunctional relations & inappropriate/inadequate home environments growing up". But then again, criminal activity doesn't necessarily stem from that type of environment either, it's a different ballgame in my opinion.

Behavioral, though...I think that's the problem here (and now). Based on personal experience & opinion entirely:

Comparing between today and 10-15 years ago when I was a teenager, it seems discipline could play a key role in numerous areas of behavioral changes over the years. I notice a huge decline in respect for authority & others well being between "now" and "then". This includes reckless abandonment for others safety and their own, as well as tone of language when communicating. This would be a very long post if I tried to list a lot of comparisons, but in my own experience growing up...I feared my parents and not the other way around based on my understanding that there would be consequences to my actions if I did something wrong (whatever it may be).

On the opposite, I see more now (even in my own extended family) where kids/teens are in charge of the household because the parents are fearful of what their children will say or how they will react to punishment. A child/teen upset with their parent is capable of remarkable things today compared to years ago. It seems, IMHO, that the power is shifting the wrong way, and children receive less discipline, which results in less behavioral understanding of consequence.

It's a separation of what's Right & Wrong from what's Acceptable & Unacceptable. Something may be wrong, but without consequence it's not necessarily unacceptable. Know what I mean?

I believe it is simply the government's way of asking parents not to use corporal punishment. It is far too difficult to enforce for it to be effective.

I used the word criminal because it is a recorded quantity. We don't exactly have records of who was naughty and who was nice, 'less you intend to interrogate Santa!

I really do not believe that teens today are worse off behaviorally than they were in the recent past due to a decline in the use of spanking. I do not think they were better behaved.

But who else will protect the people from their free will?

Amen to that.

Right until the 3 Piece-pricks decided that 'Time-outs' are a form of mental anguish they try to take that away as well.

It's not their right to decide how I punish my child. If the government wants children, they should start taking care of the orphanages. They can punish them anyway they want.