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Clicky Poll: The Electoral CollegeFollow

#1 Aug 30 2007 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Some possible pros of the EC:
- Promotes Federalism
- Protects minority interests
- Encourages a two-party system

Some possible cons of the EC:
- Discourages voter turn-out
- Make it nearly impossible for a third party candidate to get elected.
- Doesn't accurately reflect the popular vote

So........

Should it stay or should it go now?
It should go:36 (66.7%)
It should stay:12 (22.2%)
Other:6 (11.1%)
Total:54

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#2 Aug 30 2007 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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OP aside (sorry)

I think we should elect governemtn officials the same way we elect jurors.
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#3 Aug 30 2007 at 6:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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If it goes there will be trouble!

And if it stays there will be double!
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#4 Aug 30 2007 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo the Irrelevant wrote:
I think we should pay governemtn officials the same amount we pay jurors.


/nod
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#5 Aug 30 2007 at 6:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I love your Fear and Loathing Avi Bod!

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#6 Aug 30 2007 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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It should go. The EC is a dated concept from a time when the general population was ignorant of politics and couldn't be trusted to educate themselves enough to make a good decision on who to lead them--


Wait a sec...
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#7 Aug 30 2007 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kakar wrote:
It should go. The EC is a dated concept from a time when the general population was ignorant of politics and couldn't be trusted to educate themselves enough to make a good decision on who to lead them--


Wait a sec...


I thought it was originally put in place due to the constraints of travel and delivering votes in a timely fashion.

Voting now is, or could be, nearly instantaneous. As long as we don't use Diebold.
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#8 Aug 30 2007 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Or floating chads.
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#9 Aug 30 2007 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Axing it before next years election. That way the Dem's really won't have any excuses.

Not that they won't use their wonderful liberal brains to think of something that is repressive some ethnic group...they're crafty little fuckers
#10 Aug 30 2007 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Axing it before next years election. That way the Dem's really won't have any excuses.
Ironically, it'd probably benefit the Democrats more if we abolished the EC. Candidates could concentrate all their efforts into high-yield, already typically Democratic-leaning cities and trying to sway the more conservative suburbs and completely ignore the sparsely spread conservatives out in the sticks.

Edited, Aug 30th 2007 1:50pm by Jophiel
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#11 Aug 30 2007 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Axing it before next years election. That way the Dem's really won't have any excuses.
Ironically, it'd probably benefit the Democrats more if we abolished the EC. Candidates could concentrate all their efforts into high-yield, already typically Democratic-leaning cities and trying to sway the more conservative suburbs and completely ignore the sparsely spread conservatives out in the sticks.

Edited, Aug 30th 2007 1:50pm by Jophiel


And that's the problem with it.

If you do away with the EC, you will then be able to virtually just ignore entire states, and focus only on the hi-pop ones that you can grab.

The EC overrepresents states such as Rhode Island and Montana, and it forces candidates to have to go out to those places and take those areas into consideration when you are building a national platform. You require in essence a diverse spread of popular support in order to win, which helps to add more legitimacy to a Presidency.

There have been many many attempts throughout history to remove the EC system (it would require a Constitutional Amendment), but all have failed so far.

So I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.
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#12 Aug 30 2007 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nightsintdreams, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
There have been many many attempts throughout history to remove the EC system (it would require a Constitutional Amendment)
Which is the real problem. More than sixteen states benefit from the EC, so it's not going anywhere.
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#13 Aug 30 2007 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You require in essence a diverse spread of popular support in order to win, which helps to add more legitimacy to a Presidency


And that's worked a treat so far.
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#14 Aug 30 2007 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
Nightsintdreams wrote:
If you do away with the EC, you will then be able to virtually just ignore entire states, and focus only on the hi-pop ones that you can grab.


Don't they do that now, anyway?
#15 Aug 30 2007 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, you won't just ignore entire states, you'll ignore even the regions of high population states which lack a high density of voters.

Why would anyone waste time on rural Illinois when 75% of the state's population lives in Chicago and the surrounding collar counties?
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#16 Aug 30 2007 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I voted other. I don't think the current system works the way it needs to, but perhaps just a re-working, not a total elimination would be favorable.
#17 Aug 30 2007 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:

Why would anyone waste time on rural Illinois when 75% of the state's population lives in Chicago and the surrounding collar counties?


This begs the question of why anyone wastes time on rural Illinois in the first place.
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#18 Aug 30 2007 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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They largely don't. Or shouldn't. Despite Illinois being a Democratic stronghold, check out how the votes went down by county in the last presidential election. Smiley: laugh

My point really was that saying "entire states would be ignored" isn't completely accurate. The entire nation would be ignored except for those relatively few places where the population density warrants catering to the voters there.

Edited, Aug 30th 2007 4:19pm by Jophiel
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#19 Aug 30 2007 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The entire nation would be ignored except for those relatively few places where the population density warrants catering to the voters there.


So the entire nation except where most of the citizens are.

Got it. That'd be horrible. If only there was some sort of "technology" that was able to reach out to those poor disenfranchised salt of the earth bastards and allow candidates to somehow communicate messages to them with words or pictures. Maybe someday...

Really, what percentage of the votes in a Presidential election do you really think are decided by anything other than what happens on television?

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#20 Aug 30 2007 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
Nightsintdreams, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
And that's the problem with it.

If you do away with the EC, you will then be able to virtually just ignore entire states, and focus only on the hi-pop ones that you can grab.

The EC overrepresents states such as Rhode Island and Montana, and it forces candidates to have to go out to those places and take those areas into consideration when you are building a national platform. You require in essence a diverse spread of popular support in order to win, which helps to add more legitimacy to a Presidency.

There have been many many attempts throughout history to remove the EC system (it would require a Constitutional Amendment), but all have failed so far.

So I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.


Me either, which is a shame, because the EC is worthless garbage.

One of the arguments often used is that candidates would ignore everything except large urban areas...but our population is around half-rural, half-urban. According to the 2000 census:

http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm

There are about 100,000,000 living in all muncipalities of 50,000 pop or over. I suppose 20-50,000,000 should be added as suburbs, but that still leaves a ******** of rural rednecks, artichoke farmers, small cities, and quiet schemers living in the mountains.

Surely there are large regions of higher pop--northeast versus prarie states and such. And candidates would target the high pop areas. But I don't see anything in doing away with the EC which would worsen the practice of candidates ignoring certain states/regions and such.

There's also a potentially huge benefit by eliminating it--in that states such as California or Texas which almost always give all their electoral votes to Dems or GOPs respectively, would suddenly be open to millions of minority votes that would actually count towards a win.

As for the federalist vs. republic arguments--the President and his appointments and administration will create laws which apply to every American equally. It makes no reasonable sense for a North Dakotan's vote to count 1.4 towards a candidate, vs. a Texan's 0.8. As for states, they too will be subject to the same distribution metrics from federal funds, and each should get the same say in electing the Prez.

The states themselves don't practice an electoral system (unless there are some weird ones)--candidates for their houses receive one man-one vote, each county is not given a number of electors. The federal EC is an anomaly, archaic, worthless.

The other small lobby against it would be the media, who so belove creating their charts of the US and coloring it red and blue and doing their little EC vote math. Also might be some small resistance from idiot Americans who would want to keep the EC solely for that obvious, and exciting graphical representation on election nights.

#21 Aug 30 2007 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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There's also a potentially huge benefit by eliminating it--in that states such as California or Texas which almost always give all their electoral votes to Dems or GOPs respectively, would suddenly be open to millions of minority votes that would actually count towards a win.


They could change that via their state legislature tomorrow.

Give understanding something a shot before you have an opinion on it. Is it really that ******* hard to take the twenty seconds required to research things?

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 Aug 30 2007 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Axing it before next years election. That way the Dem's really won't have any excuses.
Ironically, it'd probably benefit the Democrats more if we abolished the EC. Candidates could concentrate all their efforts into high-yield, already typically Democratic-leaning cities and trying to sway the more conservative suburbs and completely ignore the sparsely spread conservatives out in the sticks.


That might explain why it's always Dems and Liberals who lead the charge to abolish it? Maybe... Might be a coincidence, but I doubt it...
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#23 Aug 30 2007 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
Smasharoo wrote:

There's also a potentially huge benefit by eliminating it--in that states such as California or Texas which almost always give all their electoral votes to Dems or GOPs respectively, would suddenly be open to millions of minority votes that would actually count towards a win.


They could change that via their state legislature tomorrow.

Give understanding something a shot before you have an opinion on it. Is it really that @#%^ing hard to take the twenty seconds required to research things?



Who pissed in your Cheerios?

Have they changed that via their state legislature? No? Then what the **** is your point here? I'm not concerned with how individual states choose to handle their individual EC votes in the current system, which is myriad. I'm concerned with how a federal change of eliminating the EC would mandate one man-one vote.

Quote:
President Bush should withdraw our troops from Iraq

Smasharoo wrote:
Congress could change that tomorrow

Quote:
Um, okay...
#24 Aug 30 2007 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Palpitus wrote:
Who pissed in your Cheerios?


I'm going with Nexa! I don't think anyone else is allowed near his Cheerios.
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#25 Aug 30 2007 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
That might explain why it's always Dems and Liberals who lead the charge to abolish it?
Assuming that's true, that would make sense, I suppose.

Lately, the closest I've seen to an attempt to abolish the EC from people actually in government are the Republican attempts to make California split its electoral votes (benefiting Republicans) which are balanced by the Democratic attempts to do the same in North Carolina. Maryland passed legislation to award their electoral votes to whoever wins the popular vote but it doesn't go into effect until enough states compromising a majority of the EVs pass the same legislation. So Maryland might be waiting a while.
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#26 Aug 30 2007 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
If only there was some sort of "technology" that was able to reach out to those poor disenfranchised salt of the earth bastards and allow candidates to somehow communicate messages to them with words or pictures.
For as snippy as you are, you sure did miss the point.

By the way, the whole cranky bad-*** sarcastic thing doesn't really work with me. I've seen you all snuggly with Nexa. Smiley: laugh
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