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Gonzales is ResigningFollow

#1 Aug 27 2007 at 5:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Trib wrote:
Atty. Gen. Alberto Gonzales, who has faced a storm of controversy over the Justice Department’s firing of federal prosecutors and his testimony about the internal debate over the administration’s secret surveillance of suspected terrorists, will announce today that he has resigned his post, a senior administration official has confirmed for the Tribune.
Huh. At this point, I had assumed he's ride it out. Well, I certainly can't complain.
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#2 Aug 27 2007 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Should have titled the thread "Gone....zalez!"

Anyway, if we've learned nothing else from Bush's cabinet choices we at least know there's an 85% likelihood that the replacement will be less competent. They'll search the ends of the Earth for someone who's less qualified, knows less about the law and is more of a lickspittle brainwashed true believer.

Hmm, wonder what Gbaji's plans for the summer are.

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#3 Aug 27 2007 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Two words: Bobby Kennedy.

In terms of cronyism, Bush ain't got nothing on those Mass feudal lords. RFK's saving grace was the same as his brother's-- he got shot and killed before nepotism/scandal/corruption could/would occur and be exposed.

Alberto's main failure? Not being prepared for the intensity of the job and using the office as an extention of the Bush administration. Had he fired those attorneys and said they serve at the will of the president instead of claiming incompetance, there'd not have been a whole lot anybody could have done about it. As it is, it shows just how inadequate Gonzalez was for the position.

Totem
#4 Aug 27 2007 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Totem wrote:
Alberto's main failure? Not being prepared for the intensity of the job and using the office as an extention of the Bush administration. Had he fired those attorneys and said they serve at the will of the president instead of claiming incompetance, there'd not have been a whole lot anybody could have done about it. As it is, it shows just how inadequate Gonzalez was for the position.


More or less. I see it more as scooterlibbyism. The disaster caused when one reacts to an issue based on the percieved public relations fallout rather then the legal aspects involved, and ends up creating a potential legal problem for himself in the process. Gonzales didn't want to just say "We fired them because they weren't following the policies of the Bush administration" because he was afraid of the public reaction to that reason. So instead he said something that came off sounding evasive (cause it was), and created a legal issue when there shouldn't have been one.

Of course, the Dems cleverly primed the media pump full of "OMG! They fired those prosecutors for political reasons!!!" ahead of time, hoping for exactly that reaction. It's been one of the consistent fault of the Bush administration officials that they keep falling for the same Dem gag over and over...

Edited, Aug 27th 2007 8:21pm by gbaji
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#5 Aug 27 2007 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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True dat, gbaji. By all accounts Gonzalez did just fine as the Texas AG. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there was a bit of the Peter Principle at work here.

Totem
#6 Aug 27 2007 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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I would have said Gonzales main failure was to write a memo giving BushCo a legal avenue for excusing the continuing torture of prisoners in their custody.

The failure in this case was to show the world that the US govt. no longer considers the Geneva Convention something that applies to them, and as such anyone who damn well feels like it can torture and kill with impunity, as long as they are willing to re-define who the GC actually applies to....


I would bet that its gonna come back and bite you (or more likely some unfortunate captured GI in some far-flung anti-american country) one day.

Do unto others......

Of course if your experience of torture and its effectiveness in the gathering of actionable intelligence comes from the likes of Jack Bauer....
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#7 Aug 28 2007 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
It's been one of the consistent fault of the Bush administration officials that they keep falling for the same Dem gag over and over...


The LIBERAL CONSPIRACY AMIRITE OR WUT?!?!

Anyway, good riddance.

Not that it matters anymore, since the twilight of this adminstration is like watching a train crash in slow-mo.

Not pretty, but entertaining.

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#8 Aug 31 2007 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
People have said that there's a good chance it'll be Chertoff(head of homeland distraction). That would be worse.

Its kind of like a game of whackamole. Scandal, someone gets blamed for it, resigns and takes the issue with them. Then the next illegal action, someone resigns and takes all the blame with them. The corruption is systematic in this administration though. Its silly how the action gets taken off the table with one resignation, only to have the person replaced with another True Believer loyal peon. You're not going to win that battle by getting enough people to resign though, they're manufacturing expendable True Believers and American Evangelicals by the truckload over at Regent University. There are currently 150 graduates from there in this administration.

I know I want people who believe the earth was created in 6 days running *my* country!
#9 Aug 31 2007 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Gonzales didn't want to just say "We fired them because they weren't following the policies of the Bush administration" because he was afraid of the public reaction to that reason. So instead he said something that came off sounding evasive (cause it was) and created a legal issue when there shouldn't have been one.

Of course, the Dems cleverly primed the media pump full of "OMG! They fired those prosecutors for political reasons!!!"



Of course never mind the entire point of the matter.. that being the fact the the HEAD LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THE COUNTRY is supposed to be NON-biased and NON-partisan. Two things which you just admitted that he was guilty of.. then you say there should be no problems with it...

Why don't we just let our Presidents just choose all of the members in all the branches of government? like Nobility and ****
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#10 Aug 31 2007 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
gbaji wrote:
It's been one of the consistent fault of the Bush administration officials that they keep falling for the same Dem gag over and over...


The LIBERAL CONSPIRACY AMIRITE OR WUT?!?!


Not so much a conspiracy as a consistent tactic.

But feel free to hit the "full spin" button if it makes you feel better...

Quote:
Anyway, good riddance.


Yes. Because he did so many horrible things that directly affected you. Um.. Hrm.
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#11 Aug 31 2007 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, good riddance.


Yes. Because he did so many horrible things that directly affected you. Um.. Hrm.



I said above^^^

Quote:
The failure in this case was to show the world that the US govt. no longer considers the Geneva Convention something that applies to them, and as such anyone who damn well feels like it can torture and kill with impunity, as long as they are willing to re-define who the GC actually applies to....


I would have thought that this would have the potential to affect anyone.


Quote:
Of course never mind the entire point of the matter.. that being the fact the the HEAD LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THE COUNTRY is supposed to be NON-biased and NON-partisan. Two things which you just admitted that he was guilty of.. then you say there should be no problems with it...


Wich in the land of the free and the home of democratic ideals, really ought to bother everyone too.
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#12 Aug 31 2007 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Isn't it amusing how often you liberals define "non-biased" and "non-partisan" to mean "liberal"?


You want him to re-interpret the Geneva Conventions, in violation of those Conventions themselves in a way that matches your own personal ideology.

You insist that anyone working for him must hold ideologies that match yours. If they don't they should be attacked and forced to resign. If they do, they must be immune from attack and cannot be forced to resign.


Is that basically it? This reminds me of the discussion we had about bias in the media. I'll give the same response here that I gave there.

There's no such thing as being "non-biased". When people try to pretend they are non-biased, what they are really doing is trying to label their biased position as some sort of centrist "norm" that everyone should adopt.


Obviously a Republican administration is going to pursue an agenda that matches their own ideology. Equally obviously, that agenda is *not* going to be the same as that which Liberals would pursue if they were in power. There's nothing wrong or sinister about that dynamic. Argue if you must against the agenda on the merits of the agenda itself, but it's silly to argue that it's "bad" simply because it's not your own...
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#13 Aug 31 2007 at 5:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
But feel free to hit the "full spin" button if it makes you feel better...
Gonzalas just tucked tail and ran. I don't see where anyone on the left's motivation needs to be to "feel better" about this.
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#14 Aug 31 2007 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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I never said I wasnt biased. I am.

I'm biased against torture. I'm biased against aggression, especially on an international scale. (Aggression should be reserved for video games and fiction). And Im biased against all froms of bullying, wether it be on a personal or global lvl.

And I'm biased against someone like Gonzales for trying giving that international bully that you call President, some reason to believe that the Genevaa Convention doesnt apply to Americans because "Gee Whizz, We're Americans! And as Americans, everything we do just has to be in a noble cause for the common good".


And if you could ever be ***** to read other peoples posts, you would have heard me mention several times now, that I AM NOT A FECKING LIBERAL! Mmmkay....

Edited, Aug 31st 2007 10:04pm by paulsol
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#15 Aug 31 2007 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
But feel free to hit the "full spin" button if it makes you feel better...
Gonzalas just tucked tail and ran. I don't see where anyone on the left's motivation needs to be to "feel better" about this.


I was talking about the tactic used by the Dems and their operatives to create the conditions that put him in that position in the first place.


They primed the pump for months prior to the "official investigation" by leaking to the press the idea that the Bush administration fired federal prosecutors for partisan reasons. Of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong or illegal to fire prosecutors for partisan reasons, but that didn't stop the media from reporting it as though there was.

After the public discussion had reached a sufficient peak, the Dems then demanded an investigation and began by questioning Gonzales as to why he'd fired those guys. Of course, after weeks of stories in the media demonizing the firing of federal prosecutors for partisan reasons, he was hesitant to say "we fired them because they weren't doing what the president wanted them to do". I think it's pretty obvious why. It would have tied directly into the rhetoric going on in the public discussion (which need not have anything to do about legality) and created a frenzy of "See! They really did fire them for partisan reasons!!!" (again missing the point that there's nothing wrong with this).


So he hemmed and hawed and was generally evasive. Which is exactly what the Dems were hoping for, and allowed them to continue to push the issue and make it seem like there was some kind of coverup.


It's the tactic I'm talking about. It's ugly. It's bad politics. Anyone could do it, but only the Dems seem so consistently willing to stoop that low. It's ridiculously easy to know that a particular political action was taken by your opponent, convince the media that this is "bad" and let them write alarmist stories about it, and then finally "investigate" the activity itself, hoping to catch the other side lying about what you already knew they did before you started the process. It takes no particular talent to do this, but is remarkably effective, especially given the general gullibility of the public at large.
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#16 Aug 31 2007 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol the Righteous wrote:
I never said I wasnt biased. I am.

I'm biased against torture. I'm biased against aggression, especially on an international scale. (Aggression should be reserved for video games and fiction). And Im biased against all froms of bullying, wether it be on a personal or global lvl.

And I'm biased against someone like Gonzales for trying giving that international bully that you call President, some reason to believe that the Genevaa Convention doesnt apply to Americans because "Gee Whizz, We're Americans! And as Americans, everything we do just has to be in a noble cause for the common good".


My comment was specifically pointed at Kelv's statement that the AG should be non-biased and non-partisan. He even used the charged phrase "guilty of" to describe Gonzales. As though you're guilty of something if you are not non-biased and non-partisan.

I couldn't tell from your response whether you agreed or disagreed with his statement, so I didn't address you specifically. Whatever...


Quote:
And if you could ever be ***** to read other peoples posts, you would have heard me mention several times now, that I AM NOT A FECKING LIBERAL! Mmmkay....


Well. As I just stated, I didn't specifically direct that at you. I will point out that for someone who claims to not be a "liberal", you manage to agree with virtually every single socio-political position that US liberals hold.

Don't really care what you label yourself. I'm going to label you based on how I view your positions. If you'd care to explain what positions you hold that *dont* match what I would call "liberal" (or more correctly: Social Liberalist), please feel free.
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#17 Aug 31 2007 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong or illegal to fire prosecutors for partisan reasons
Well, nothing illegal anyway. I think most people would disagree with there being nothing wrong with it. In fact, most people did disagree with it so I'm right, which is always nice Smiley: smile
Quote:
So he hemmed and hawed and was generally evasive. Which is exactly what the Dems were hoping for, and allowed them to continue to push the issue and make it seem like there was some kind of coverup.
Your ability is blindly support anyone the president does and blame it all on the liberals is charming.
Quote:
It takes no particular talent to do this, but is remarkably effective, especially given the general gullibility of the public at large.
Ah, now it's the Democrats' fault, the media's fault and the American people's fault that Gonzales acted as poorly as he did. It's amazing how far the party of personal responsibility will go to blame everyone in America but themselves when their guys are a fuck-up*. I mean, who's left to blame now? Cats? Penguins? iPods?


*Excepting, of course, when there's sex involved...
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#18 Sep 01 2007 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
yep, a good company man. loyal to the end to a POLITICIAN instead of his COUNTRY.

coarse, the country isnt going to give him some fat consulting job now is it?

democracy working hard....for the man.
#19 Sep 02 2007 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
I was talking about the tactic used by the Dems and their operatives to create the conditions that put him in that position in the first place.


Ahhh, so the democrats are using their evil mind control rays to make the republicans do corrupt things? Disregarding the constitution of the US and wiretapping their own citizens? All democrat mind control, right? Disregarding geneva convention and torturing prisoners, it was the democrats!


Gonzales was about a lot more than firing prosocutors, and, funny enough, those things that 'they leaked' really did happen. THere was ample evidence that they were fired for not going after democrats enough, or going after republicans too hard. Shame on people for actually putting light on it though, right?

Its never the fault of the republicans, it's the fault of the people who reported it! Puhlease.
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