This is the only topic I have written to my federally elected officials about. I don't care where you stand politically, the Chief-Wiggum-esque incompetence of our "intelligence" agencies has to be disturbing.
http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Emerging_Threats/Briefing/2007/08/14/report_cases_dropped_in_fbiice_turf_war/9826/
" Turf disputes between the FBI and Immigration and Customs Enforcement have resulted in leads or even entire cases being ignored or dropped, says a new report. "
"The report found that seven out of the 10 terrorist financing cases examined suffered from lack of cooperation between the FBI and ICE."
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This is the only topic I have written to my federally elected officials about.
Something that doesn't effect you at all which they have no power over.
Ideal.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Aww, leave him alone. At least it's better than total apathy.
Smasharoo wrote:
This is the only topic I have written to my federally elected officials about.
Something that doesn't effect you at all which they have no power over.
Ideal.
Wrong on both counts. Crime effects us all. I'd rather they did a better job of communicating so as to avoid as much crime as possible. The reason we didn't stop the 9/11 attacks wasn't that we didn't have a PATRIOT act. We had the information. It was that intelligence agencies didn't talk to one another.
They still don't. Even in this tiny subset of problems which they specifically agreed to work together on.
Congress has ultimate control over all intelligence agencies: they can defund them, for example - but that is extreme. They can hold hearings and implicitly threaten to lay the fiscal smack down on them unless they start doing their job.
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The reason we didn't stop the 9/11 attacks wasn't that we didn't have a PATRIOT act.
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We had the information. It was that intelligence agencies didn't talk to one another.
These people are not mind readers and even if they had put all the information together perfectly and come up with exactly what would happen,all they would have done was said "I told you so" after the attacks as the consept was considered utterly far fetched and improbable.
Gbaji will be wading in at any moment.
Baron von tarv wrote:
Quote:
The reason we didn't stop the 9/11 attacks wasn't that we didn't have a PATRIOT act.
It might be the vodka or lack of sleep talking but was there not numerous training manuals and scenarios set up and actively discussed in the intelligence community talking about the very real and viable threat of airplanes being used as weapons by terrorist flying them into sh'it? I seem to recall someone trying to use the 'we didnt know' excuse before only to be rebutted by with a similar training manual pre-911 publishing date that was actively used.
Or were you being sarcastic or something and I am just pulling a Smoggy?
Not that I care. Better security, intelligence, gypsy blessed talismans that keep away Muslims none are going to do jack squat in the end against concentrated effort by terrorists. As Tarv and Nobby are so quick to point out with Northern Ireland as an example it is a political and idealogical struggle to swing the local population away from extremism and that starts by looking at your own actions.
/ramble
Edited, Aug 14th 2007 11:17:04pm by bodhisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I, too, remember hearing about some reports stating use of aircraft as WMD prior to 9/11, and that the main obstacle in preventing such attacks was that the FBI, CIA, NSA etc. didn't want to and in some cases were prevented from passing information along to and within each other. The partisanship between the different intelligence and enforcement departments is mind-boggling.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
The Feds and ICE are responsible for 9/11 and Baby Jessica.
I'm in charge of what now?
Quote:
It might be the vodka or lack of sleep talking but was there not numerous training manuals and scenarios set up and actively discussed in the intelligence community talking about the very real and viable threat of airplanes being used as weapons by terrorist flying them into sh'it? I seem to recall someone trying to use the 'we didnt know' excuse before only to be rebutted by with a similar training manual pre-911 publishing date that was actively used.
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if they had put all the information together perfectly and come up with exactly what would happen,all they would have done was said "I told you so" after the attacks as the consept was considered utterly far fetched and improbable.
To somehow blame people sat in an office block in Washington for not putting together the 9/11 attack is frankly stupid, and moreover to then blame politicians for not acting on a report on hinting at an attack like this would also be churish, could you imagine the reaction of the public if Bush had proposed the present airport restriction based on terroists flying planes into the WTC if it hadn't happened?
It would have caused riots.
Baron von tarv wrote:
Quote:
It might be the vodka or lack of sleep talking but was there not numerous training manuals and scenarios set up and actively discussed in the intelligence community talking about the very real and viable threat of airplanes being used as weapons by terrorist flying them into sh'it? I seem to recall someone trying to use the 'we didnt know' excuse before only to be rebutted by with a similar training manual pre-911 publishing date that was actively used.
I think it was clear that it was on the radar (forgive the pun) and was clearly considered. Also a cursory google search shows that Al-qaeda had made threats that they would use such manner of attacks pre-9/11. It is also clear that such threats were recognized and worked into active training for terrorist scenarios, not just as 'what if think tank' type work but actual training. Much more credible and reliable than the head of homeland security stating that terrorist attacks were 'imminent' and then stating 2 weeks later that his only basis for making the claim was a gut feeling. Or the head of the FDA trying to claim that purchasing lower cost prescription drugs through Canada should not be allowed due to possible drug tampering by Al-qaeda then admitting 3 months later that there was absolutely no evidence that al-qaeda had even considered it and that he had made the claim up.
While it is not the Bush administrations job to be intelligence analysts the people whose jobs its was were clearly aware of the threat and had credible evidence and forewarning but failed to act on it, that is indisputable and to say 'hindsight is 20/20' is bunk. Which leads back to what Yoss was talking about in terms of co operation not infighting being so important between govt beaucracies.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Smasharoo wrote:
This is the only topic I have written to my federally elected officials about.
Something that doesn't effect you at all which they have no power over.
Ideal.
you meant "AFFECT".
Affect means to modify or change something that already exists.
Effect means to make, create or do something entirely new and whole.
Examples: "How does that affect my plan?" "Put the plan into effect."
Just what we need around here: another pedant. 
What's bred in the bone will not out of the flesh.
Hell, *I* resisted that urge, and it was mighty strong. Somewhat akin to keeping your *** clenched when you know there's about a gallon of rancid liquid crap trying to spew forth.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Bhodi wrote:
I am just pulling a Smoggy.
So "pulling" is what you Canucks call it? We call it "************* - interesting. More grippage and a little faster, please...that's it, that's - ********!*
Edited, Aug 15th 2007 8:57:05am by Snorre
'Lo, there do I see, the line of my people, back to the beginning, 'lo do they call to me, they bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla, where the brave...may live...forever.
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
Tare wrote:
Just what we need around here: another pedant.
Seriously. Position's filled, buddy. Keep movin'.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Tare wrote:
Just what we need around here: another person who reads cursory interwebz documents and wiki entries and suddenly becomes a defense expert.
Agreed.
Baron von tarv wrote:
Quote:
The reason we didn't stop the 9/11 attacks wasn't that we didn't have a PATRIOT act.
I think there is good documentation that our intelligence services knew ahead of time. For example,
9-11 commission report wrote:
On August 24, the CIA also sent a cable to Paris and London regarding "subjects involved in suspicious 747 flight training" that described Mouassoui as a possible "suicide hyjacker"
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
page 274, pdf page 291.
It gets "better" just a couple paragraphs down:
9-11-report wrote:
There was substantial disagreement between Minneapolis agents and FBI headquarters as to what Moussaoui was planning to do. In one conversation between a Minneapolis supervisor and a headquarters agent, the latter complained that Minneapolis's FISA request was couched in a manner intended to get people "spun up." The supervisor replied that was precisely his intent. He said he was "trying to keep someone from taking a plane and crashing into the World Trade Center." The headquarters agent replied that this was not going to happen and that they did not know if Moussaoui was a terrorist.
Baron von tarv wrote:
Pearl HarboUr.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
you meant "AFFECT".
Affect means to modify or change something that already exists.
Effect means to make, create or do something entirely new and whole.
What I actually meant was "I hope your grandmother is anally raped by a guy with a chainsaw and then thrown into a woodchipper. I wonder what the effect of you eating hamburgers made from the result would be."
Also, idiot, it's not "Affect means to modify or change something that already exists. " It's which. If you're going to lube your ****** up and shove a unabridged dictionary into your prostate while critiquing pointless mundane points of word usage, that's fine. Likely the only way you can ******. If you are going to, however, at least take the 10 seconds to fuck up restrictive and unrestrictive clauses in the post you make criticizing grammar
You simpering moron.
Wrong on both counts.
No. You're a fucking idiot. Cherish the form letter response which is just recently sophisticated enough to have your name in the same font as the rest of the boilerplate reply while your elected officials laugh at you while passing your letter around saying "I can't believe these suckers STILL fall for it!"
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Smasharoo wrote:
[b]
Wrong on both counts.
No. You're a fucking idiot.
From you, that's practically a compliment.
And you seem unable to reply on topic. As the rest of your reply seems to have little to do with the points you brought up earlier, to which I replied.
But just for laughs:
smash the lunatic wrote:
Cherish the form letter response which is just recently sophisticated enough to have your name in the same font as the rest of the boilerplate reply
I doubt my senators (I live in California) have enough resources to individualize each reply. Mine from Feinstein's office cited particular legislation they had passed or were working on dealing with the issue at hand.
[/quote] while your elected officials laugh at you while passing your letter around saying "I can't believe these suckers STILL fall for it!"
[/quote]
Fall for "it" as in my belief that incompetent intelligence agencies could have prevented 9-11? Or "it" as in my belief they are incompetent at all?
Fall for "it" as in my belief that incompetent intelligence agencies could have prevented 9-11?
Yeah. If only they'd been more incompetent. That would have saved us.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Smasharoo wrote:
Fall for "it" as in my belief that incompetent intelligence agencies could have prevented 9-11?
Yeah. If only they'd been more incompetent. That would have saved us.
I won't link it, but it's a good story
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Quote:
The headquarters agent replied that this was not going to happen and that they did not know if Moussaoui was a terrorist.
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probably one of thousands of training manuals covering every possible senario both probable and hugely far fetched, half of which have never and will never happen and you are still stuck with.
Quote:
:
if they had put all the information together perfectly and come up with exactly what would happen,all they would have done was said "I told you so" after the attacks as the consept was considered utterly far fetched and improbable.
if they had put all the information together perfectly and come up with exactly what would happen,all they would have done was said "I told you so" after the attacks as the consept was considered utterly far fetched and improbable.
Jesus man if they acted on every single one of these reports you would have a total military state.
Or maybe thats what you want.
Jesus man if they acted on every single one of these reports you would have a total military state.
But you'd feel safe. Oh please just tell me whatever I have to do or pay to feel safe again in my terrible world where bad things happen to other people, in mediocre numbers *all at the same time!!!* while millions die of things I don't think about. What is it I have to do!! Anything!
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
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