Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

A few dollars more (or less)Follow

#1 Aug 08 2007 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
****
4,158 posts
Well, I must say that a coupla weeks on an island in the middle o' nowhere has done me the world o' good. No news, no internet, no mmorpg's, no 'lists of jobs' from 'er indoors, no bog paper......

But now I'm back. And tho I've tried to maintain my happy feelings for as long as possible by NOT looking at the events of the world outside my lil South Pacific island, I find myself at work with nuttin to do, except trawl the worlds media......

Usual stuff about killer diseases rampant in the UK's livestock, rampant killers loose in the Middle East, diseased minds rampantly killing kids the world over....

Then I came accross this piece....

Quote:
The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.
Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress.



Quote:
Two senior spokesmen for the Chinese government observed that China’s considerable holdings of US dollars and Treasury bonds “contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency.”



I remember a thread here a while ago where the US economy (and by extension the state of the global economy in general) was discussed.

Some people thought it was chugging along just fine, and other people thought that it was seriously fecked and only managing to be sustained by massive support (lending) by countries in the far east and China in particular....



Now if China ceases to buy US Treasuries, Bush’s wars would have to end. (The several billion a month being spent pursuing the **** is essentially being provided by the Chinese after all).The savings rate of US consumers is essentially zero, and several million are afflicted with mortgages that they cannot afford, its all looking pretty dire.

The options (if that came about) would be that Americans would have to be hit with tax increases in order to close a budget deficit that China and others will no longer finance, or cuts in income security programs (pensions etc). The only other source of budgetary finance would be for the government to print money to pay its bills (very Robert Mugabe-esque). If that happens, there would be huge inflation as well as higher consumer prices from the devalued dollar.

Bearing in mind that foreigners control 44% of US debt and that productivity in the US is slowing considerably, GWB's happy smiley economic predictions are looking decidedly shaky.

The silver lining in that particular cloud tho, I guess, would be that pursuing aggressive wars around the placeis going to become harder and harder for the crazies in the Whitehouse. So economic collapse of the western world wouldn't be all bad I s'pose.....

I was wondering what your thoughts were about it all.....

Or are you all still all gushing over the Harry Potter movie or some such?
____________________________
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#2 Aug 08 2007 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,659 posts
Who the fuck are you?
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#3 Aug 08 2007 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
****
4,158 posts
Quote:
Who the **** are you?


Ahhh... How sweet. You missed me.
____________________________
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#4 Aug 08 2007 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
Ya, that could really fuck us.

(If you're too lazy to click the link, there's a perty graph showing a rank of the foreign exchange reserves. China being numero uno, the USA of a barely breaking the top 20.)

But if it makes you feel any better, we have most of the gold.

Too bad we got away from the gold standard though.

Edited, Aug 9th 2007 2:13am by Omegavegeta
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#5 Aug 09 2007 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
Wtf? No Clint Eastwood in this thread?? Smiley: glare
#6 Aug 09 2007 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
*****
10,755 posts
Smiley: sleeper
#7 Aug 09 2007 at 7:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Smiley: sleeper
Threat level: Yellow! THREAT LEVEL: YELLOW!!
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Aug 09 2007 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
*****
10,755 posts
Jophiel wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Smiley: sleeper
Threat level: Yellow! THREAT LEVEL: YELLOW!!


Smiley: yikes Holy Smokes!!!
#9 Aug 09 2007 at 8:35 AM Rating: Default
Like I said in a thread in the OOT, China would never do this.

Selling their USD reserves would defeat the purpose of artificially pegging the CNY to the USD.
#10 Aug 09 2007 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
***
3,128 posts
I am just amused to find out that 1.33 trillion dollars of the trade deficit with China has gone right back to the USA.
#11 Aug 09 2007 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
/shrug

Much ado about nothing really. The relationship between borrower and lender is circular. Neither side has any reason to ***** up the relationship.

China *could* decide to cash in on their US tbills. But then what? We'll just float them back on the market and someone else will scoop them up. It's not about "debt", it's about economic performance. People buy US tbills because they are backed by the US economy, and the US economy has historically outperformed every other economy on the planet over the last 60 years or so.

Threatening to do that without a better place to put that money investment-wise is essentially an empty threat. It'll hurt them far more then it hurts us. Now, if the Chinese economy were to improve (in terms of actual productive output in relation to inflation) such that putting that money into their own economy netted them more growth then putting it into ours (which is essentially what they're doing when they buy our tbills), then we might have something to worry about.


However, that situation would be the result of our productive growth slowing (GDP), not how much debt we have. Like say if we were to increase taxes on big business significantly (in order perhaps to pay off that debt). That would be more dangerous to us then continuing at our current rate.

EDIT: And for the record. Debt held by public as a percentage of GDP is about 37%. High point for the last 40 years was in the mid 90s when it was hovering around 49%. We're less in debt today then we were a decade ago. Just in case someone wants to throw the "OMG!!! We've got too much debt!!!" argument out there...

Edited, Aug 9th 2007 7:46pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 256 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (256)