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#1 Jul 27 2007 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Near-abouts by me, they're building a Planned Parenthood clinic. Not just any PP clinic, but one which will perform abortion services. The got it under the proverbial radar by building it through a subsidiary called Gemini Development and it was on the books as Gemini Medical Center until recently. However, it's all very legal and the land is zoned for a medical building and the city council admits that, even if they wanted to do something, they couldn't. The building is in an outlot of a grocery store/strip mall arrangement.

Planned Parenthood owns the land and the building. In other words, they can't be evicted or lose their lease or whatever. This is important to note because apparently the plan from the usual anti-abortion folks is...
The Chicago Tribune wrote:
The Pro-Life Action League held a strategy session on the clinic Thursday and decided to begin picketing the site Aug. 22. The group intends to target not only the clinic, said Scheidler, but customers of nearby businesses as well.

"We will be out protesting with our ugly graphic pictures that everyone hates. People don't want to go shopping or go to the dentist with those pictures out there," Scheidler said.
So their plan is to try to drive away business from the grocery store, Great Clips, Hollywood video and whatever other businesses you find in a strip mall? To what end? Just to make some guy with a Great Clips franchise broke? "Hey! How dare you get your haircut within 300 yards of a Planned Parenthood building!" The businesses can't force PP out -- it's Planned Parenthood's building.

So, essentially, they're just going to intentionally fuck with other people's businesses for the sake of making some noise which will accomplish nothing. Way to go Smiley: rolleyes
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#2 Jul 27 2007 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Set the hippies on fire, or better yet, throw aborted fetuses at them till they leave crying. Damned whiners messing with local businesses just cause they don't like something.



Okay grumbling aside, this is a tactic used in all sorts of protest, strikes and what have you. Harrass the businesses in the area. Then as they get pissed off they will start to complain and try and get rid of the offending whatever (in this case the PP clinic). Basically the whiners are going to harrass other people to get them to do their own dirty work. That way they get what they want and have to expend less efford.
#3 Jul 27 2007 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure in what sense the anti-choice protesters can be classified as hippies, unless you're one of the slugs who believes that any political activist must be a dirty hippie.

At any rate, yes, it's a low tactic and essentially what we've come to expect. The next step will be shooting medical personnel and/or patients in the name of saving lives.
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#4 Jul 27 2007 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's Aurora. You'd think that they'd be more concerned with the gang shootings and such.

Quote:
"Hey! How dare you get your haircut within 300 yards of a Planned Parenthood building!"

After that, they can move a couple of blocks over to Fox Valley mall! "How dare you overpay for frivolous and often pre-ripped and pre-faded clothes this close to an abortion clinic!"
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#5 Jul 27 2007 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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alricflaim wrote:
Then as they get pissed off they will start to complain and try and get rid of the offending whatever (in this case the PP clinic).
Which goes back to my original point -- Planned Parenthood owns the land, owns the building and is properly zoned and completely legal. There ain't a hell of a lot that Hollywood video can do about it even if they had the gumption.
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#6 Jul 27 2007 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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So what you're saying is that a bunch of pro-life activists are mis-informed and overzealous.

I fail to see how that's anything new, although it's still fairly annoying.
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#7 Jul 27 2007 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
So what you're saying is that a bunch of pro-life activists are mis-informed and overzealous.
I'm not even certain that they're misinformed. I think they just figure that, if they wave enough signs in people's faces, things will magically change. Or "miraculously change" to be more accurate.

Edited, Jul 27th 2007 1:04pm by Jophiel
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#8 Jul 27 2007 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
Isn't that the theory behind any non-violent protest, whether it be anti-war, anti-discrimination, anti-globalization, labor rights or anti-abortion?

Or I guess you could look at it as trying to influence peoples opinions by shoving the issue in their face.
#9 Jul 27 2007 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Losttroll wrote:
Isn't that the theory behind any non-violent protest, whether it be anti-war, anti-discrimination, anti-globalization, labor rights or anti-abortion?

Or I guess you could look at it as trying to influence peoples opinions by shoving the issue in their face.


I think the line between "bringing an issue into the open" and "shoving an issue in peoples' faces" gets crossed when the deliberate decision is made to shock and disgust random people in the vicinity.
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#10 Jul 27 2007 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Losttroll wrote:
Isn't that the theory behind any non-violent protest, whether it be anti-war, anti-discrimination, anti-globalization, labor rights or anti-abortion?
Harrass and try to drive away customers from local businesses who are in no way related to the issue you're protesting? I'd guess no. Otherwise I'd go protest GM's environmental policies by trying to drive customers away from a taco stand.

I don't have a problem so much with them protesting by the clinic. I don't agree with them but, as for their right to stand there and hoot, I'll let the courts decide. I do have an issue with them deciding to target and fuck with completely unrelated businesses simply because they happened to be there before Planned Parenthood began construction.

If, somehow, they managed to drive away every single customer from the strip mall and every store went out of business, it wouldn't affect the clinic at all. It's not as though PP relies on walk-in business from women going to Fashion Bug who think "Oh! I'll get an abortion while I'm here!"
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#11 Jul 27 2007 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's not as though PP relies on walk-in business from women going to Fashion Bug who think "Oh! I'll get an abortion while I'm here!"


In all fairness this is mostly due to the fact that women who shop at Fashion Bug don't get laid.
#12 Jul 27 2007 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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The shop windows smashed on "KristallNacht" included those of German Gentiles stupid enough to own a business near to Jewish stores.

Godwins or sumfing.

At this rate, the Whitehouse will be passing laws about 'Lebensraum'. Wheee!
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#13 Jul 27 2007 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
I'm not sure in what sense the anti-choice protesters can be classified as hippies, unless you're one of the slugs who believes that any political activist must be a dirty hippie.


I'm going to guess that being someone who rarely posts to these boards that what sounds funny to me didn't parse as well as I thought it would.
#14 Jul 27 2007 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Harrass and try to drive away customers from local businesses who are in no way related to the issue you're protesting?


Ah sorry, I was refering specificly to:

Jophiel wrote:
think they just figure that, if they wave enough signs in people's faces, things will magically change. Or "miraculously change" to be more accurate.


Which is a cynical way of looking at just about every march, picket or other form of protest out there.


iirc getting in peoples faces and driving away clients actually got them barred from coming within a certain distance of a clinic, maybe they will get the same treatment here. (although for some reason I seem to recall that being overturned recently).
#15 Jul 27 2007 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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I've always wondered where they find these people.

Don't these people have jobs?
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#16 Jul 27 2007 at 11:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Iamadam the Shady wrote:
I've always wondered where they find these people.

Don't these people have jobs?


You mean aside from imposing their repressed morality on others?
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#17 Jul 27 2007 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
You mean aside from imposing their repressed morality on others?


Somehow I doubt that the guy with the megaphone makes more than a sign holder.
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#18 Jul 27 2007 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Iamadam the Shady wrote:
I've always wondered where they find these people.

Don't these people have jobs?


You mean aside from imposing their repressed morality on others?
What's the pay like?

And the hours? I can't do Tuesdays
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#19 Jul 27 2007 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
You mean aside from imposing their repressed morality on others?
I think they need to repress more if they're jumping up and down and yelling at me Smiley: tongue
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#20 Jul 27 2007 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
You mean aside from imposing their repressed morality on others?
I think they need to repress more if they're jumping up and down and yelling at me Smiley: tongue
OK - I can't do every Tuesday but I could be flexible
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#21 Jul 27 2007 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
Presuming the laws there are similar to the ones in Cali, the protesters would have to picket at the sidewalk, and could not enter the common lot of the strip mall nor block the driveways while picketing. I doubt they will have much influence on the customers as they drive past to see the dentist, rent a movie, kill a baby, or whatever.
#22 Jul 27 2007 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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As far as tactics go.
They should take a few pointers from the Rainbow Coalition...who use five major ideas in their tactics:

1) Presence. (pay lots of clueless, out of work bums, students and welfare recipients $20 each to to show up and picket)

2) PR. (Shout their version of it to all of their personlly invited by Reverand Jackson news sources)

3) Stay on message. No matter if it takes years.
Even when the rich white college boys turn out to be completely innocent of raping the poor disadvantaged, drug addicted, unfit mother/stripper.

4) Corporate Blackmail.

5) Corporate Extortion.



Edited, Jul 31st 2007 2:32am by alwayslost
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#23 Jul 27 2007 at 4:54 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
"We will be out protesting with our ugly graphic pictures that everyone hates. People don't want to go shopping or go to the dentist with those pictures out there," Scheidler said.
So their plan is to try to drive away business from the grocery store, Great Clips, Hollywood video and whatever other businesses you find in a strip mall? To what end? Just to make some guy with a Great Clips franchise broke?


Well. At the risk of coming in at the tail end of the discussion...

Maybe because of the lines immediately following those you quoted:

Quote:
Such tactics are precisely what have residents of the nearby Oakhurst subdivision concerned, said Homeowners Association President Jonathan Lack. The community of 2,200 homes -- more than half are single-family residences -- could best be described as "conservative and Republican."


I would assume that the point here is not to make the businesses suffer, but to raise the awareness of the "conservative and Republican" people who live in the neighborhood that Planned Parenthood just opened up a shop right in the middle of their neighborhood without so much as a "by your leave".

The tactic is fundamentally no different then the ones used by the folks sitting on the side of the road with a "shame on <companyname>! labor dispute" sign. People see them. They're ugly. They don't like it. They complain. And ultimately this gives those pushing their "cause" a bit more power to influence things. You can't infringe on the protesters right to free speach, so quite often the result is that those living in the area find some way to force the "source" of the issue out of their neighborhood, if for no reason other then to get rid of the protesters and the eyesore involved. Given that this is already a conservative/republican area, it's not a bad approach at all since many people would already be inclined against PP even without the protests going on.
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#24 Jul 27 2007 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Quote:
Such tactics are precisely what have residents of the nearby Oakhurst subdivision concerned, said Homeowners Association President Jonathan Lack. The community of 2,200 homes -- more than half are single-family residences -- could best be described as "conservative and Republican."
I would assume that the point here is not to make the businesses suffer, but to raise the awareness of the "conservative and Republican" people who live in the neighborhood that Planned Parenthood just opened up a shop right in the middle of their neighborhood without so much as a "by your leave".
By my reading, the residents are more concerned about the tactics of screaming and shoving posters in your face than they are the actual clinic itself.
Quote:
The tactic is fundamentally no different then the ones used by the folks sitting on the side of the road with a "shame on <companyname>! labor dispute" sign.
I've never seen such people anywhere but outside of the business they were protesting. Not hassling patrons of other businesses. I'll admit in advance that your experiences may be different but I've never seen the guy in the rat suit protesting Wal-Mart's lack of unions anywhere but outside of a Wal-mart. He didn't hang out at the McDonald's nearby and yell at me.

Come to think of it, I've never been yelled at by a pro-union rep.
Quote:
Given that this is already a conservative/republican area, it's not a bad approach at all since many people would already be inclined against PP even without the protests going on.
Ironically, I see this backfiring more than anything else. They're not going to just "get rid" of the clinic. It's not as though Planned Parenthood is going to say "Oh shit! Protesters!" and leave a nine million dollar facility. It's more likely that people will get sick of the guys waving posters at them every time they go to the ATM and get pissed at them instead. Finding a way to corral the protesters elsewhere is probably easier than finding a way to evict a legal business.
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You can't infringe on the protesters right to free speach
*cough*"Free Speech Zones"*cough*

Edited, Jul 30th 2007 11:16am by Jophiel
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#25 Jul 30 2007 at 4:51 AM Rating: Decent
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You can't infringe on the protesters right to free speach


Assembly, moron, and yes, you can infringe on the protester's rights. Infringement on constitutional rights is upheld by courts nearly constantly.



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#26 Jul 30 2007 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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It pretty much sucks.

But then, the close-minded, over-righteous defenders of 'life' have never used reasonable effective techniques in trying to spread the good word about peoples rights or responsibilites in making their own familial decisions. Nor have they ever much furthered their cause with their 'nice tactics'.


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