Negotiations with HamasFollow

Well my primary point was the hypocrisy of Condi's statement, not the debate of whether we should negotiate with Hamas or not.

Hamas has reasons from their perspective not to negotiate with current Israel or to hold them in contempt, or to label them as radical, aggressive, terrorists, etc. Anything written in this thread about the nefariousness of Hamas could replace "Hamas" with "Israel" and for a great many Palestinians, and for Hamas, the narrative would remain true.

Condi finds it hard to imagine a partner for peace that doesn't recognize another party's right to exist. The US doesn't recognize Hamas' right to exist as the power in Palestine. Hypocrisy or subjective favoritism, or idiotically fostering a catch-22 of recognizing as a prerequisite for negotiation; Bad diplomacy no matter what the motive.

Sure we do. We lament that fact they they were voted into power but we also admit that they were indeed voted in.

We just won't deal with them as a government. Which is a different thing entirely.

Abbas attempted to hold early new elections. He then dissolved Hamas' position in the government declaring a state of emergency. According to Condi Rice "He was elected in 2005 by a large margin. We fully support him in trying to end this crisis for the Palestinian people and give them an opportunity for a return to peace and a better future." (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/14/gaza/index.html)

The US currently backs a Palestinian government of one, Mahmoud Abbas. It backs his decision to dissolve the Hamas-Fatah unity government. It supports his initiatives to basically ignore what the last election led to, and hold new ones. To unilaterally appoint a new PM. What's not to get about the US not recognizing Hamas as the legitimate power in Palestine?

bottom line,

if you negotiate with evil instead of rejecting it entirely, you empower evil.

no organization that butchers innocent people to make a political statement should ever be acknoledged by us or anyone else, ever. when Hamas took controll, we should have started a military build up on the border and answered each and every mortar round with 100 of our own. every rifle shot with a rain of fire of our own.

we need to make it clear that killing innocent people will only result in the destruction of everything they hold dear. not rights, their own state, and international recognition.

but we didnt. and here we are. empowering evil.

what we are doing, talking when they kill innocent people, is exactly why they continue to do it.

it is effective. it will bring concessions and recognition from us, the bread basket of the middle east. when hezbola attacked and kidnapped the israeli soldier, we played good cop, while supporting israel at the same time. acknowledging their right to defend themselves, but staying out of the conflict and preaching moderation and a "measured" response.

the only thing that does is ENCOURAGE third world hell holes to do the same. and they are. it empowers evil. hezbola can do as they please, and we will preach moderation to israel in their response instead of shipping them equipment and support and totally devastating an area a few miles all around israel, and launching cruise missles at hezbola safe areas for every missles they fire blindly into israel.

afraid if a war with syeria? lets do it. we have the ability to destroy an army many times our own size with our suoerrior firepower and equipment. it only took one air attack to totally wipe out hussines elite guard, 60,000 strong, with out a single casualty on our side.

draw the line in the sand, and defend it with all force necessary and then some.

if the range on their mortars is 2 miles, destroy EVERYTHING within three miles of the bordar untill the shelling stops. and if it doesnt, increase it to 4 miles.

let them **** and moan about rights of return, and holy war, but totally and definitivly destroy anything that crosses that line in the sand. make it absolutly clear, the only gain they will get from killing innocnt people is the destruction of their country.

you make a clear enough example of a major power there, and the rest will hesitate to support action that might result in the destruction of their country. you capitulate with evil, you empower it. that is the only possible result of negotiating with hamas. more dead people. and why? because it gets them the attention they want on THEIR terms.

same with Iraq. i dont see why we needed to be there in the first place, but if we had to go in, then we should have leveled the country like we did with germany, and then......left.

no rebuilding, no puppet government, just left. with a note on the palace table that says "dont make us come back".

afganistan is differant. there is no central governmenet, only a scattering of differant tribes. that should have been a nuclear crater. the mountains osama was hiding in should have been turned into a glass parking lot. a clear and unmistakable message that killing innocent americans will result in very very negative attention.

this measured response crap only encourages others who want the attention al-queda is getting. the support and money flowing to them from various middle east countries. the hero status.

the message we sent was this.....kill us and we will turn you into a world power, with world attention, adn funds free flowing from everyone who wants to see the guy at the top knocked off the top.

would have been a totally differant outcome if we left those mountains reduced to a glass parking lot with everything anywhere near osama DEAD. a clear message that fanatics will only get your own people killed. how much support do you think the next sama would have gotten from those tribes that lived? probably killed on sight just to protect their own people. certainly not standing up on national tv and declaring him a hero adn refusing to turn him over like the taliban did.

we are sending the wrong message.

ratings only work if you CARE what other people think of you.

be yourself. dont conform to some preconcieved standard someone you dont even know is trying to impose on you. dont become another drone. and definatly dont cower and show concern when some nobody decides what you think is meaningless to them by whinning when they dont agree with you or you dont conform to the perfect little world they created for themsleves in their little mind.

say what you mean, ratings be damned.

let the little people out to controll you know they mean nothing to you. no one can take controll from you unless you GIVE it to them. caring about some pathetic rating tool on a public form is like waving a flag that says "controll me". your on you way to becoming a meaningless drone to be used to make someone else create perefection in THEIR own little world.

stand up and be counted.

What's evil shadow?

If an alien looks down on this planet and sees all that's going on without knowing anything about 'who is who', or 'who did what to whom', what will they conclude?

Are the guys that dropped the A-bomd evil? Are the guys that flew a plane into a building evil? Are the guys that invaded a country killing most everyone in it's path evil? Are the guys that hood, hold under water, defecate on, and disgrace detainees evil?

Are you God shadow?