At Dunkin Donuts this morning, I was scarfing down a Boston cream and a coffee when I heard Hadji (not a slur, thats the clerk's name) complaining about Hispanics in the area not speaking English.
Do you agree with this or not? I have mixed feelings. One one side, we don't have a national language. On the other side, being Italian, I know my father used to be beaten with a broom whenever he spoke anything BUT English because his parents wanted him to be part of the "new world" and not the old.
Opinions?
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- If you live in America, learn to speak english.
If you live in America, learn to speak english.Follow
Well, if they want to get along easily, or at least with greater ease, in their new country, speaking the common language certainly helps. But, hey, if they don't want to learn it, it's no skin off my back.
When I moved last year, none of the movers spoke English and we got along just fine. Of course, they were probably talking about my boobs or something and I just kept smiling and nodding.
When I moved last year, none of the movers spoke English and we got along just fine. Of course, they were probably talking about my boobs or something and I just kept smiling and nodding.
What's bred in the bone will not out of the flesh.
"If you want me to boob-fuck you in the back of the moving truck, just smile and nod..."
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Acclimation is a large part of moving to any country that isn't your birth country. It's best to try to learn the language, the customs and the people.
But I grow sick of hearing this Pro-American rhetoric, full of nothing but Speak English or Die ********* To many of us forget this country was forged (taken over, founded, whathaveyou) by a melting pot of languages and customs.
But I grow sick of hearing this Pro-American rhetoric, full of nothing but Speak English or Die ********* To many of us forget this country was forged (taken over, founded, whathaveyou) by a melting pot of languages and customs.
We just went around with this fairly recently so I'm not looking to dive into it again headlong, but the basic point I made was that assimilation (including language proficency) is a generational change. It happens, but it takes time. I quoted from an article in the last thread...Would it be nice if everyone spoke the language I did? Of course. Do I see a guy speaking Spanish and worry about the collapse of America? Not at all.
The "Three Generation" Rule isn't unique to Hispanics; European immigrants showed the same pattern throughout the twentieth century.
Edited, Jul 17th 2007 9:08am by Jophiel
US News & World Report wrote:
Educational and economic disparities may narrow but will most likely persist long into the future. However, the most readily voiced fear-that the Spanish language will displace English-seems the least grounded. Last year, research on Spanish retention in heavily Mexican Southern California found that Mexicans in the region retain proficiency in their native tongue longer than other immigrant groups, but English quickly dominates. Fewer than 30 percent of the children of Mexican immigrants reported preferring to speak Spanish at home. By generation three, only 17 percent of the Mexican-Americans spoke fluent Spanish.
"If there's not retention of the Spanish language in Southern California, it's not going to be retained anywhere," says Princeton Prof. Douglas Massey, one of the study's authors.
"If there's not retention of the Spanish language in Southern California, it's not going to be retained anywhere," says Princeton Prof. Douglas Massey, one of the study's authors.
The "Three Generation" Rule isn't unique to Hispanics; European immigrants showed the same pattern throughout the twentieth century.
Edited, Jul 17th 2007 9:08am by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
"If you want me to boob-fuck you in the back of the moving truck, just smile and nod..."
And there was much snickering and slapping of backs.
Yay!
What's bred in the bone will not out of the flesh.
It is a little different dynamic when immigrants from different cultures need to communicate. I understand Hadji's point - he's making the effort, he has trouble understanding American English, and he probably doesn't have a lot of time or energy to learn Spanish as well.
I can think of at least eight major languages spoken in the Bay Area. Absolutely there are enclaves within each one where only that language is spoken; and as Joph points out that's mainly a generational/date of arrival thing. However, if anyone in those groups needs to communicate with anyone in any of the other groups, chances are good that they're both going to need to speak passable English.
I can think of at least eight major languages spoken in the Bay Area. Absolutely there are enclaves within each one where only that language is spoken; and as Joph points out that's mainly a generational/date of arrival thing. However, if anyone in those groups needs to communicate with anyone in any of the other groups, chances are good that they're both going to need to speak passable English.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
However, if anyone in those groups needs to communicate with anyone in any of the other groups, chances are good that they're both going to need to speak passable English.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
By October of 2029 we should all be speaking global Netlingo (cept them slackers that insist on living in the jungle without puters).
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
1337sp33k shall unite all peoples of all nations?
Jophiel wrote:
Samira wrote:
However, if anyone in those groups needs to communicate with anyone in any of the other groups, chances are good that they're both going to need to speak passable English.
Sure, and the Vietnamese can probably speak to the Chinese - not sure they'd want to, but they probably can.
Still, that leaves some fairly disparate groups.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I have no objections to people speaking in their native language to each other in English-speaking countries. However, if they can speak English at least fairly well and are in my company, I consider it the height of ignorance for them to communicate between each other in a non-english language. As such, I would not visit germany, being able to speak fairly good german, and purposfully speak English just so Natives could not understand me.
But meh, everyones different, I can't mould them to my views so I gotta live with it. (Ignore the fact I take each and every one of them down into my basement for a 10second Lye-shower.)
But meh, everyones different, I can't mould them to my views so I gotta live with it. (Ignore the fact I take each and every one of them down into my basement for a 10second Lye-shower.)
if you move to a new country and you do not choose to speak their language, it is your own fault for being **** on by the natives. top it off with the fact you will never get a higher paying job then under the table or min. wage if you can not speak the native language of the land you are now living in.
so if you come to America, learn to speak English clear and clean enough to communicate with people so they are not constantly asking you to repeat your self. Oh and this goes for native Americans too.
so if you come to America, learn to speak English clear and clean enough to communicate with people so they are not constantly asking you to repeat your self. Oh and this goes for native Americans too.
Samira wrote:
Still, that leaves some fairly disparate groups.
With a little tweaking, we can have Spain where California would be anyway.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
endingforever wrote:
However, if they can speak English at least fairly well and are in my company, I consider it the height of ignorance for them to communicate between each other in a non-english language.
And this is exactly the type of people I'm talking about.
How is it ignorant for say, 2 Koreans, to communicate in Korean, between each other?
You said you spoke German fairly well, mind if I call you a stupid fuck for reverting to English in your head when you do math?
Singdall wrote:
top it off with the fact you will never get a higher paying job then under the table or min. wage if you can not speak the native language of the land you are now living in.
Tell that to the hundred-odd Spanish speaking laborers making union scale for the my company right now.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Singdall wrote:
Oh and this goes for native Americans too.
Don't the Indians have enough problems?
endingforever wrote:
However, if they can speak English at least fairly well and are in my company, I consider it the height of ignorance for them to communicate between each other in a non-english language. As such, I would not visit germany, being able to speak fairly good german, and purposfully speak English just so Natives could not understand me.
If I spoke conversational German and was in Berlin with a like educated person, I'd still speak to my companion in English. I'm not going to slog through a conversation in German just so the native next to me can eavesdrop on when we want to visit the Reichstag.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
endingforever wrote:
However, if they can speak English at least fairly well and are in my company, I consider it the height of ignorance for them to communicate between each other in a non-english language. As such, I would not visit germany, being able to speak fairly good german, and purposfully speak English just so Natives could not understand me.
If I spoke conversational German and was in Berlin with a like educated person, I'd still speak to my companion in English. I'm not going to slog through a conversation in German just so the native next to me can eavesdrop on when we want to visit the Reichstag.
There, I bolded a small section just for you, I think you'll find it very interesting.
Quote:
If I spoke conversational German and was in Berlin with a like educated person, I'd still speak to my companion in English. I'm not going to slog through a conversation in German just so the native next to me can eavesdrop on when we want to visit the Reichstag.
Bolded a lil section right back at ya.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
When I am with Flea and her sister, they speak English most of the time. Because both are fully fluent and can converse equally well in either. When she speaks to her mother, she goes to Spanish unless I am an active part of the conversation. Her mother is conversationally fluent in English (well, even more fluent than that) but feels more comfortable in Spanish. I really don't give a rat's *** when they speak in Spanish because I'm not worried that they're hiding things from me. They're most often discussing which stores they want to shop at or what's wrong with the car or why Flea's brother is going to be late getting to the airport.
Unless I just want to evesdrop on a conversation that doesn't involve or concern me, why should I care?
Unless I just want to evesdrop on a conversation that doesn't involve or concern me, why should I care?
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
If I spoke conversational German and was in Berlin with a like educated person, I'd still speak to my companion in English. I'm not going to slog through a conversation in German just so the native next to me can eavesdrop on when we want to visit the Reichstag.
Bolded a lil section right back at ya.
I don't quite understand what you're trying to point out to me. Would you mind being a dear and making it a little more clear?
If it is a misunderstanding from my post then perhaps I should make myself clear:
Quote:
However, if they can speak English at least fairly well and are in my company, I consider it the height of ignorance for them to communicate between each other in a non-english language. As such, I would not visit germany, being able to speak fairly good german, and purposfully speak English just so Natives could not understand me.
From the bolded section in the quotation, I would be led to believe I meant that for being in the company of Natives I would attempt to speak to them in their native language. I would also expect the same courtesy returned to me if it was not to inconvenient.
For example: I am in Japan on business, and have a non-fluent but advanced grasp of japanese. I would attempt to communicate with my japanese-speaking companions in Japanese at every opportunity. This, in my eyes, is good manners.
Again, if the Japanese representative visited my company in an English speaking country, and they had a grasp of the English language, I would consider it only good manners for them to act the same way.
Of course this is only my personal opinion, and you are free to disagree with this. But I fail to see why this sparked multiple flames/rate-downs. Of course the anonymity [sp] of the internet contributed slightly but it would be much appreciated if any of you could explain what you meant when you disagreed with my view, particularly the ones who did so in a rude manner. I have no want of a flame war so if that is the only response you have to this post, I am afraid I will not respond to you and I bid you adeiu.
Jophiel wrote:
Singdall wrote:
top it off with the fact you will never get a higher paying job then under the table or min. wage if you can not speak the native language of the land you are now living in.
Tell that to the hundred-odd Spanish speaking laborers making union scale for the my company right now.
do they not speak english? if not, then they should not of been hired by your union in the first place.
as for the assnut below native american in that context is referring to those born in the USA and not 1st generation families. meaning your family has been in the USA at least 2 full generations.
Speak whatever you want, just don't ***** that the system isn't fair because you made the wrong call.
Singdall wrote:
as for the assnut below native american in that context is referring to those born in the USA and not 1st generation families. meaning your family has been in the USA at least 2 full generations.
Whooshhh.
Singdall wrote:
do they not speak english?
Quote:
if not, then they should not of been hired by your union in the first place.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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