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#27 Jul 10 2007 at 2:20 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Nexa wrote:
MentalFrog wrote:

That and look up ironic in the dictionary.


Are you implying that Alanis didn't give us enough examples to make it clear?


The only thing that's ironic is that stupid song is that none of her examples are in fact "ironic".

Tabernacle!


That was kinda my point. I don't blame you for missing it though, you're like, French or something. :p

Nexa
____________________________
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― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#28 Jul 10 2007 at 2:23 AM Rating: Good
Nexa wrote:
Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Nexa wrote:
MentalFrog wrote:

That and look up ironic in the dictionary.


Are you implying that Alanis didn't give us enough examples to make it clear?


The only thing that's ironic is that stupid song is that none of her examples are in fact "ironic".

Tabernacle!


That was kinda my point. I don't blame you for missing it though, you're like, French or something. :p


Yes, well, erm, I knew that, I was just being, like, ironic and stuff...

Sarcasm is hard to detect in written form.Smiley: bah

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#29 Jul 10 2007 at 3:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:

Yes, well, erm, I knew that, I was just being, like, ironic and stuff...

Sarcasm is hard to detect in written form.Smiley: bah


You can generally use, as a rule, the question "Is there any chance that what Nexa just said could be construed as sarcasm?" If the answer is yes, then chances are it was meant to be 98% of the time. If the answer is no, it probably still was, but you just don't get it. :D

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#30 Jul 10 2007 at 3:21 AM Rating: Good
Nexa wrote:
You can generally use, as a rule, the question "Is there any chance that what Nexa just said could be construed as sarcasm?" If the answer is yes, then chances are it was meant to be 98% of the time. If the answer is no, it probably still was, but you just don't get it. :D

Nexa


In this particular case, I clearly don't get it.

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#31 Jul 10 2007 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
What there is, as there is with alien abductions, psychics, people levitating, telekinesis, whatever bullsh*t fringe crap you'd like to name is a lot of *stories*.


Anyone got any objections to me adding "God" to that list?
#32 Jul 10 2007 at 4:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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12,065 posts
Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:

In this particular case, I clearly don't get it.


How ironic.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#33 Jul 10 2007 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
DSD wrote:
And this is my point.
Well, you kind of missed it.

Science is based on what can be observed, tested and what theories can be developed from that information using the best data you can acquire at the time. As the data changes, the theories may need to be changed or discarded but the principles remain largely the same.

However, science is not based on "Well, anything can be true!". Baring a strong framework of evidence supporting spiritual activity, saying "Science can't explain it away" is not evidence and the burden of evidence is on the one making the claim.


I didn't miss it. Ghosts have been reported for thousands of years all across the world. It's been reported in cultures that have little influence from the rest of the world.

Until recently, there has been no way to back up these claims except for eyewitness accounts passed on. But with the boom in technology there has been enough collected evidence to strongly suggest that there is a possibility. EVPs, high EMF readings where no energy base should be around and hadnt been when checked previously. Pictures that have yet to be debunked, by people who are professionally trained and can explain camera exposure/motion blur/matrixing etc, are still (and rightly so) trying to, and have been for decades. I do not suggest that ghosts are definite. That does not mean there is no base work on the subject that can be backed up.
#34 Jul 10 2007 at 4:49 AM Rating: Decent
Personally, I don't think ghosts exist in the sense that someone dies and their spirit or whatever cannot move on, but that's mainly because I do not believe we have a "spirit", at least not in the spiritual sense lol.
But that does not mean I write off the existence of ghosts etc. I think it is entirely possible, both under the realms of physics and of paranormal activity, that there are beings in other dimensions that could be inadvertantly coming into contact with our senses. Of course this is pureply speculation on my behalf but it is the view I will continue to hold until it has been undeniably proven otherwise.

As for other experiences people claim to have had, alien abductions, contact with "God" etc. I put these down to people being on drugs, the mind being forced to hallucinate for whatever reason and pure ignorance of the majority of the human race.

Well, that's my lunchtime bored talk, back to work =)
#35 Jul 10 2007 at 4:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
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12,065 posts
endingforever wrote:
there are beings in other dimensions that could be inadvertantly coming into contact with our senses. Of course this is pureply speculation on my behalf but it is the view I will continue to hold until it has been undeniably proven otherwise.

As for other experiences people claim to have had, alien abductions, contact with "God" etc. I put these down to people being on drugs, the mind being forced to hallucinate for whatever reason and pure ignorance of the majority of the human race.


...what bizarrely contrary stances to hold. Good for you!

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#36 Jul 10 2007 at 4:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
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Quote:
EVPs, high EMF readings where no energy base should be around and hadnt been when checked previously.


And what are those, and what exactly do they measure, and who decided they were relevant to ghostly activity, and what methodology did they use to arrive at that conclusion?

Observed phenomenon do not a science make. That's how they came up with spontaneous generation.

All that tells us is that there are high EVPs and EMFs, whatever they are.
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#37 Jul 10 2007 at 4:59 AM Rating: Decent
Nexa wrote:
endingforever wrote:
there are beings in other dimensions that could be inadvertantly coming into contact with our senses. Of course this is pureply speculation on my behalf but it is the view I will continue to hold until it has been undeniably proven otherwise.

As for other experiences people claim to have had, alien abductions, contact with "God" etc. I put these down to people being on drugs, the mind being forced to hallucinate for whatever reason and pure ignorance of the majority of the human race.


...what bizarrely contrary stances to hold. Good for you!

Nexa


Lol, the side-effects of being a physics student /sigh
#38 Jul 10 2007 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good
Samira wrote:
Observed phenomenon do not a science make.


Wise is the girl who such statements make.

Far in life will she go.

Despite the fact that, perhaps, too much Star Wars she has watched.

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#39 Jul 10 2007 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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DSD wrote:
I didn't miss it. Ghosts have been reported for thousands of years all across the world. It's been reported in cultures that have little influence from the rest of the world.
So have faeries. So have dragons. So have angelic beings. So have yeti-style "wild men". That's the thing about folklore; even in geographically isolated regions, there still tends to be common threads and themes. But that's a question of sociology and anthropology, not physical science.
Quote:
But with the boom in technology there has been enough collected evidence to strongly suggest that there is a possibility. EVPs, high EMF readings where no energy base should be around and hadnt been when checked previously.
Assuming that there were high electro-magnetic frequencies, what possible rationale are we using to assume that the wraiths of the dead emit electro-magnetic signals? I won't even humor the tape recordings saying "Boo!"
Quote:
Pictures that have yet to be debunked, by people who are professionally trained and can explain camera exposure/motion blur/matrixing etc, are still (and rightly so) trying to, and have been for decades.
And have these experts concluded that the most likely explanation is ghosts?
Quote:
I do not suggest that ghosts are definite. That does not mean there is no base work on the subject that can be backed up.
There's a world of difference between "There's some high electro-magnetic energy here" and "The high electro-magnetic energy here indicates spectral activity".
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#40 Jul 10 2007 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Quote:
EVPs, high EMF readings where no energy base should be around and hadnt been when checked previously.


And what are those, and what exactly do they measure, and who decided they were relevant to ghostly activity, and what methodology did they use to arrive at that conclusion?

Observed phenomenon do not a science make. That's how they came up with spontaneous generation.

All that tells us is that there are high EVPs and EMFs, whatever they are.


EMF= Electromagentic Field
Quote:
The electromagnetic field is a physical field produced by electrically charged objects. It affects the behaviour of charged objects in the vicinity of the field.


EMF Meter
Quote:
EMF meter, or ElectroMagnetic Field meter, is a scientific instrument for measuring Electromagnetic radiation.


Why they are used in investigations (from Taps cause I'm lazy):
Quote:


What you are looking for on an EMF Detector in a Paranormal Setting is:

A reading as above (could be 2, might be 20 mG) that cannot be explained by a local power source.
A reading which changes or fluctuates for no accountable reason. Standing in a room, the reading is 2 mG, then it spikes to 9, and back down to 2.
Normal background readings which DROP for no explainable cause can be the indication that something is trying to manifest.
To always try correlating the reading with some other phenomena. A cold spot, orbs on film, or even a strange feeling can lend weight to a strange EMF indication.
To experiment with different settings and meters. Use different brands and models of EMF meters to see what works for you.


EVP= electronic voice phenomena long read but interesting stuff.

Nothing is concrete conclusive, many create frauds for entertainment sensation that blacken the rest of those who do try hard to keep it as scientific as possible. But for every 10 things that can be debunked, there is one that leaves people wondering, creating more questions.I'm not going to sit here and state everything is absolutely true. I'm not even asking people to believe in the possibility. But these reasons and my own personal reasons, are why I personally enjoy looking for more answers.

Lastly, the best ghost caught on video tape ever.SFW but contains sound. If this doesnt make you scratch your head and wonder, nothing will
#41 Jul 10 2007 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So have faeries. So have dragons. So have angelic beings.


Faerie is a generic term used for all sorts of different beings. Each culture you go to has a different and unique definition what what the fae are. It's too broad of a term to conclude that faes are accounted for in different areas.

Dragons are easily accounted for by stumbling upon remains of dinosaurs. Dinosaurs lived on every continent of the world. People did not have the technology to decipher how old the bones were, and I'm sure, assumed that if they found a skeleton of one, others must be around.

Angelic beings is revolved solely around religion. Most specifically with Judeo Christianity. It is not found with all cultures or religions.
#42 Jul 10 2007 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
DSD wrote:
Samira wrote:
[EMF Meter
Quote:
EMF meter, or ElectroMagnetic Field meter, is a scientific instrument for measuring Electromagnetic radiation.


Why they are used in investigations (from Taps cause I'm lazy): [quote]

What you are looking for on an EMF Detector in a Paranormal Setting is:

A reading as above (could be 2, might be 20 mG) that cannot be explained by a local power source.
A reading which changes or fluctuates for no accountable reason. Standing in a room, the reading is 2 mG, then it spikes to 9, and back down to 2.
Normal background readings which DROP for no explainable cause can be the indication that something is trying to manifest.
To always try correlating the reading with some other phenomena. A cold spot, orbs on film, or even a strange feeling can lend weight to a strange EMF indication.
To experiment with different settings and meters. Use different brands and models of EMF meters to see what works for you.



I'm sure I read something in a NewScientist somewhere talking about this, it involved some guy claiming the Heisenberg principle could explain the disturbances in the EMF due to the inevitable presences of EMFs to observes said disturbance. I shall look it up tonight after work and get back to you if I find it. I personally thought this guy was crackers, after all science has scorned religion for placing God as the answer to inexplicable activities, so doing the same thing with unexplained EMFs seems a little hypocritical. But meh.
But yeah, I'll be back, and stuff...
#43 Jul 10 2007 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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30,086 posts

There is still a lot in this world that can not be explained away with the knowledge science has produced thus far. We dont know everything, we never will. And as you had also stated, science can be flawed.


Just start teaching your kids Intelligent Design and get it over with.

If your going to carry on with this foolishness, please provide a single example of something "unexplained" that isn't a random story that can't be checked for accuracy.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#44 Jul 10 2007 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
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What you are looking for on an EMF Detector in a Paranormal Setting is:

A reading as above (could be 2, might be 20 mG) that cannot be explained by a local power source.
A reading which changes or fluctuates for no accountable reason. Standing in a room, the reading is 2 mG, then it spikes to 9, and back down to 2.
Normal background readings which DROP for no explainable cause can be the indication that something is trying to manifest.
To always try correlating the reading with some other phenomena. A cold spot, orbs on film, or even a strange feeling can lend weight to a strange EMF indication.
To experiment with different settings and meters. Use different brands and models of EMF meters to see what works for you.


Are you ******* joking? Dan Akroid has 10 times as much credibility than these quacks because he starred in Ghostbusters. How can a grown woman be so stunningly gullible??

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#45 Jul 10 2007 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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TILT
DSD wrote:
Faerie is a generic term used for all sorts of different beings.
So are ghosts. Cultural concepts of spirits and the afterlife vary wildly from region to region.

Are you saying that Irish banshees and Japanese jikininki are the same basic thing but Irish merrows and Japanese kappa are wildly different and don't count?
Quote:
Angelic beings is revolved solely around religion. Most specifically with Judeo Christianity. It is not found with all cultures or religions.
You're viewing "angelic being" far too narrowly. Any culture I can think of has a concept of a divine messenger which is precisely what "angel" translates to.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#46 Jul 10 2007 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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Angelic beings is revolved solely around religion. Most specifically with Judeo Christianity. It is not found with all cultures or religions.


I have very few rules I follow when posting here, but among them is not to **** with people named "Jophiel" about our relative knowledge of angel lore.

Just sayin.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#47 Jul 10 2007 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
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16,781 posts
Jophiel wrote:
DSD wrote:
Faerie is a generic term used for all sorts of different beings.
So are ghosts. Cultural concepts of spirits and the afterlife vary wildly from region to region.

Are you saying that Irish banshees and Japanese jikininki are the same basic thing but Irish merrows and Japanese kappa are wildly different and don't count?
Quote:
Angelic beings is revolved solely around religion. Most specifically with Judeo Christianity. It is not found with all cultures or religions.
You're viewing "angelic being" far too narrowly. Any culture I can think of has a concept of a divine messenger which is precisely what "angel" translates to.
Dont' matter is you call them; ghosts, faeries, angels, gods, or ethereal floaty things...ain't one bit of scientific evidence to support any of um. Furthermore, with todays level of knowledge, they are not a reasonable hypothesis to explain our origins, much less an anomolous EMF or a bump in the night.


Edit: I spelled bump wrong. Smiley: smile

Edited, Jul 10th 2007 6:38pm by Elinda
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#48 Jul 10 2007 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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Smasharoo wrote:
I have very few rules I follow when posting here, but among them is not to @#%^ with people named "Jophiel" about our relative knowledge of angel lore.
Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#49 Jul 10 2007 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
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19,524 posts
Samira wrote:
Observed phenomenon do not a science make.


[pedant]

An observed phenomenon doth not a science make.

or

Observed phenomena do not a science make.

[/pedant]

I hardly expected our resident frawgie to pick up on that one, but Sammy - I thought you had teh standards!
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#50 Jul 10 2007 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
Gurue
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"This reminds me of the time you tried to drill a hole in your head, 'member that?"

"That would have worked if you hadn't stopped me."
#51 Jul 10 2007 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
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29,360 posts
Nobby wrote:
Samira wrote:
Observed phenomenon do not a science make.


[pedant]

An observed phenomenon doth not a science make.

or

Observed phenomena do not a science make.

[/pedant]

I hardly expected our resident frawgie to pick up on that one, but Sammy - I thought you had teh standards!


I am hanging my head in shame. I shall return my pedant's pendant forthwith.
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