Theodore Roosevelt's on immigrants and AmericansFollow

It is kind of quaint, in a frustratingly idiotic way. That belief in a myth that never existed with a bunch of opinions based off it and grounded firmly in ones own ignorance of the situation.

Asking you for an opinion is like going to a phrenologist for a reading.

You missed the point, obviously. The point, as I have stated, is to unite this country, rather than divide it. Red vs. blue states serve as the first division. Us vs. them, and if you think it's any different, listen to the politicians, pundits, press, read the local commentary pages in the paper. Next division is by racial/ethnic/whatever background, farther separating the populace.

In the end, it doesn't matter if you're white, black, brown, yellow, gay, or straight, we all are part of the same country, and it's time we start thinking like that. This nation was formed on a few ideals that are just as important today as they were 230 years ago. The idea that every man, woman, and child, should have the right to work hard and succeed. That all of us have rights that are undeniable. And that we are all equal. No one can strip those rights, and that's what allows us to be great. We're great because of our people, yet the people of this country would rather separate themselves from one another, and fight over petty differences, rather than unite and be proud of what we have, and what we can do.

It is quite possible to take pride in who you are, without infringing on someone else, or forcing someone to forget where they came from. It's quite possible to take pride in being an American, and not rag on another country. There are many great nations on this planet, the United States is only one of them. The FACT that this nation was built by pull your bootstaps up kinda people, both born here, and immigrated here, is what makes this country great. What's wrong with taking pride in that? I'm not suggesting that we all forget our heritage, just simply that we drop the stupidity, and simply call ourselves Americans. On paper, we're all equal at the start. We're all given the same chance to succeed. Things that stress our differences merely separate us. We need to stress what makes us the same, rather than what makes us different.



So almost every nation on the planet sucked/s ***? Good to know that you at least take a smidgen of pride in the U.S. (I'm sure you're proud to be an American, even if you're pissed that our elected officials at the federal level suck, I'm pissed most of them suck too, hell, I'm pissed that those at the state and local level around here blow more than a cheap hooker with no teeth, I'm just giving you a ribbing).

Bodhi, please use the "vast" amounts of knowledge you have, and enlighten us. Show me where my views are outdated. Please, tell me how dividing a nation into smaller, easier to manipulate groups, is a good thing, except for political reasons.

Way to add something relevant to the conversation. Did you come up with that by yourself, or did CNN help you? Wait, I know, it was Michael Moore.

See, I can toss insults without any factual basis too.

Being proud of my country has nothing to do with the waste of space in the federal government. I didn't vote for the guy, so by default, I'm supposed to drop all semblance of love for my country? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

Policy of hating ourselves is what morons have been doing for a long time. It shows an in-ability to stand up for what one believes in, and usually leads to people like this taking over an wrecking shop for the rest of us, forcing us to stand up for you.



Edit: Here's a question for you: Do you take pride in your country?

Edited, Jun 25th 2007 4:40pm by Metastophicleas

Well, I think that English should be the national language, mostly because it's been what we've spoken for a few hundred years now, so you know. I'm not as concerned with the accent though, I like most Hispanic accents, and thing they add flavor to the language, and are usually easy to understand.

I'm more concerned with the divisions amongst us as Americans though, than I'm worried about illegal immigrants. I, like many people, don't like the idea of the government dividing us because of the color of our skin. I think that it does more harm than good. Kids grow up thinking they're something that they're not, or that they're less than someone else, because of what they have to check on a piece of paper before a test. I think that once you are an American, that's it. You don't need anything in front of it, nor do you need to worry about being anything else. You're not black, white, yellow, you're American.



Valid point, but there were many wealthy people that came here to increase their riches too.

As far as the gold standard, why not? I think that it's important to understand where you've come from, but even more important to understand where you're going. Once people take possession of being Americans first, I think that you'll see more people that want to understand why they've been screwed by their government, and want to change it. I think that you'll also finally see what people have been "trying" to do for years, and eliminate a lot of racial stress, which I think is getting worse in some communities, because of Affirmative Action, which has been outdated for 20 years now. It only took one generation to convince most people that blacks are just as good as whites, and that people of every color can be great, or suck. Greatness knows no color, neither does suckitude.

Ah, I missed part of the statement. What I was getting at was the populace taking pride on coming here as an immigrant (or being born here), and taking pride in what they accomplished. Becoming a citizen of this country is somewhat easy, if not a long process. People should take pride in the fact that they made it through, not separate themselves from the country they just joined buy throwing somewhat meaningless titles in front of it.

Same goes for those born here, you aren't from wherever you are claiming, so you're only lying about your origin. Drop the X-American crap.

There is very little influence from where people came from left in this country. We have a culture that is whole by itself. There is little linking the United States of today with the original settlers left. I think it's important that people entering this country, that wish to be here for longer than a few months, should be required to learn English, and acclimate themselves to the country. I wouldn't move to France, expecting everyone to learn American English just for me, so why should it be any different here? Why should we be expected to conform to those that come here, when no sane country or populace on the planet would?

Last time I was overseas, I learned some basics of the languages that I was going to encounter, just so that I could at least ask where to eat and ****. I wasn't so arrogant as to expect them to bend over backwards for me. It irks me to no end to see our country doing just that, and saddens me at that same time, knowing that it's like that because we have people that desire power so much, that they would sell out their own country to gain that power.


Edit: Completely off topic, just played LOTRO finally, and I am completely hooked.

Edited, Jun 25th 2007 5:24pm by Metastophicleas

Ok, here's a more accurate example, when I was in the Middle East I learned some Arabic, because I didn't expect enough people to speak English. I only knew enough to carry on the most basic conversations, but I knew what I needed to know to get around.

If the most worthwhile thing one can find to 'believe in' is some sort of 'pride' in a geographical location, and the sense of belonging to a 'tribe' of 250 million people whom you are nevr going to meet( and most likely would ignore, if you did) then yeah, I think thats pretty sad.

What is it you DO believe in?

Harley davidson motorcycles? Apple Pie? Your military capability? Paris Hilton?




I dont think its anything to do with 'hating yourself', or not. I do believe its all about having some humility and accepting that other people have the right to live as they see fit.

By all means wallow around in your percieved self-worth, but like I said, that self-worth, when it becomes a feeling of superiority over others, enables people like the example you gave and the examples I gave to exploit that 'patriotism' to the point where aggression against people not in your 'tribe' becomes not only tolerated and acceptable, but desirable.



only if you feel that a nation full of clones is a good thing....


Personally I prefer the 'celebrate our diversity' line of thinking.




I'm proud of our non-nuclear policy. And of the beauty of our land. I'm also pretty happy with the way our prime Minister stuck to her guns about not getting involved in Bush's scheme for world domination.

But 'proud' of my country? not as such no.

I would defend what is my family and home to the death, but would I blindly follow the orders of my countries leaders in the name of 'patriotism'? No.

I think that throughout the history of mankind, people who want to be in charge have exploited the herding instinct of other people by drawing lines, labelling, classifying and using terms like 'patriotism' and 'national pride' to manipulate the unthinking masses into believing that they are somehow more deserving than people who arn't in their particular club/religeon/vaterlandhomeland.

Seems like you are falling for it......

You know, I agree.

Well, not "abolish" countries as such, but if everyone could just stop pretending that because you are born within some administrative border drawn by some bureaucrats on a map, you are fundamentally different from the rest of the planet, it would be a huge step forward in humanity's journey.

It's also painfully obvious we should have a world government in one form or another. Global warming, wars, pollution, drugs, all the major problems in the world today don't really respect our beloved borders.

We'll come to it sooner or later anyway, so I'm not worried, but if for once we could do it before some major catastrophy opens our eyes and forces our hand, that would also be swell.



Now that, I totally disagree.

Spinach are full of yums.

Well, in fairness, it is fUcking Shite.



Edited, Jun 25th 2007 10:22pm by RedPhoenixxx

White.



White.



White.



White.



Hard working.



White.




Hawt.

actually you are wrong; when america was in its growing stages many large cities had ghettos for many nationalities. These ghettos were places where people of similar nationalities lived together and prospered (not the poor districts of towns), much like many heavy Latino speaking towns/districts today. I'm sure when the people moved to America many were able to live without having to learn the english language.

These ghettos usually grew into mini-towns within larger towns and are still there today. If you want to dispute me then don't tell me there isn't a little Italy or Chinatown in the major cities.

You don't live in Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, or Texas do you?

Do not even remotely compare a little Italy type neighborhood to what's going on here. Not unless you've lived in the area for some time. You simply don't understand. They aren't even in the same league.