paulsol the Righteous wrote:
Im annoyed about the whole "its how the palestinians (as a whole) think". 'Cos that just isn't true.
For you to imply that that is how ALL palestinians feel is disingenuous to the vast majority of the Palestinian people.
Huh!? When did I do that. I quoted one person. I said that *his* statements were contradictory "doublethink". I never once said or implied that his statement was indicative of Palestinians as a whole, merely that *his* statement belied his own hatreds.
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It's the Jewish component that is the underlying cause of the hatred.
I think you're wrong. Most muslim nations in the ME have large, or had large jewish populations for centuries. They treated them a lot better than they've been treated in Europe over those same centuries.
Certainly. Hence the point here. He (Hamas actually) is attempting to create hatred by programming small children to adopt the same views that he has. I thought that was the whole point of this?
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You really believe that if the Palestinians had been forcibly moved from their land and herded into refugee camps, with a few good massacres thrown in for good measure, by the French, or the Methodists, for example, that they would have seen that as ok.
Well. If that was vaguely like what happened, you'd have a point. The actual history is that the British Mandate split up the region into sections, one of which was to be controlled by Jews (called Israel). It was in fact the *smallest* of the sections of what was then known as Palestine. Larger sections were split into Jordan and Syria, with a largish section left in what is now Israel as a Palestinian state. What happened was that the Jordanians and the Syrians incited the Arabs living in the two remaining sections to rise up against the Jews (notably purely because they were Jewish since that was the only difference between that section and any other in the region).
Literally on the day the British Mandate ended and the various regions became separate nations, Jordanian and Syrian forces attacked, aided by Arab Palestinians. Isreal was able to hold them off and captured the region that was supposed to be a Palestinian state. Note, this was *after* being attacked. They didn't start it.
Then they came to an agreement with Syria and Jordan. The Jews in Syria and Jordan who wanted to leave would give up their lands and come to Isreal. The Arab Palestinians in what was now Israel who wanted to leave would give up their lands and move to Syria and/or Jordan. The idea was to have a straight swap. What happened screwed over the Palestinians but was *again* not Israel's fault. The Jews left their lands, carried what they could and traveled to Israel. They were given equivalent land there. The Arab Palestinians left their lands in Israel and traveled to Jordan or Syria depending on their choice. Instead of giving them the lands the Jews had given up, those two countries dumped them into camps right along the border of Israel, denying them that which they were promised and making them second class citizens. When they complained and tried to return to Israel, Israel refused to give them their land back (why should they?). Thus began the current day refugee status of many Palestinians.
The bordering nations used those camps as points of contention, stiring up the Palestinians so that they could use them to try to destabilize Israel by handing them arms and kinda pointing them in that direction. Sometime later, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt attacked Israel yet again. Israel was again able to beat them back (with the US's aid). This time, they kept the various bordering territories which had been used against them time and again (those with the Palestinian camps in them, notably the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip, and West Bank). Israel's thinking was that this way at least they could somewhat control the weapons and movements within those areas so that they could not use them to stage attacks against Israel so easily (we can debate the correctness of that assumption of course!).
Look. There's a lot of bad blood in this situation. However, it's incredibly simplistic to simply state that Isreal took the land from the Palestinians and tossed them out in the desert. Their current condition is almost entirely the result of their own actions and the actions of the bordering nations of Syria and Jordan. And those actions had 100% to do with the fact that Israel was (and is) a Jewish state.
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I think they would still be feeling somewhat agrieved.
Absolutely. Again though, the situation and it's history is far more complext then you're implying.
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I guess tho, that if you, and people like you, can see the whole Palestinian People as being 'terrorist supporting haters of the jewish people', then its easier for you to ignore the injustices and atrocities being perpetrated against ALL the Palestinians, just for being Palestinian.
Absolutely not. Several of my co-workers are Palestinian. I'm well aware of their plight and condition. Probably moreso then you. Again though, I was simply pointing out this one man's hatred of Jews, not the Palestinians as a whole.
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Theres haters on both sides.
Of course there are. But that's no reason to excuse hateful statements. I honestly wasn't trying to make any sort of broad statement about the whole Palestinian/Israeli situation in my original post. I was simply pointing out what I saw as an amusing bit of doublespeek on the part of the one guy I quoted. It was such an obvious rationalization for hatred that it just struck me.
Don't read any more into my statement then that. While I'm more then willing to discuss the history of Palestine (and I may have even gotten a couple things misordered in my quick synopsis above), I really wasn't trying to do more then just point out his statement. If you want to discuss the Palestinian situation, I'm game. Just don't assume my position based on an extension of that one statement. You'd be wrong.