Weighing in on the Mommy WarsFollow

While I normally don't watch tv, every once in awhile there is one talk show I will DVR if the topic is something I am interested in. The other day they did a stint on the Mommy Wars. I'm pretty neutral on all matters of this "war", but while watching it, I was appalled at how angry and hateful some of the wimmins acted towards those with different opinions. One mother in particular was straight up yelling that any mother who decided to be a full time mom was lazy. Ironically, Sickabilly sent me this article
that day.

So mothers, fathers, people who have an opinion, here's a couple of topics to weigh in on. What's your stance? What's your thoughts on the other stance? Do you look down on those who have differing ideals when it comes to child raising? Would you openly criticize someone in public? Im not talking abuse here. Just different ways of parenting:

1. Career Mom vs Stay at Home Mom

2. Breast or Bottle (keep in mind kids need to eat in public too, when answering)

3. To Spank, or Not To Spank

4. Organic only Foods? Fast Food OK?




Also, for you moms and dads out there, have you ever been stopped and criticized for something you were doing with your children on any of these matters? How did you react?



My own thoughts:

1. I've done both. Each had it's pros and cons. I know that as soon as my kids are in school I will be reentering the work force. But for myself, I look at it this way. I've been given an amazing opportunity that many families can not afford, being able to stay home with my two kids during their younger years and I will take full advantage of it. Being able to raise my kids without the need of daycare is precious. I get to be a constant part of their life. And these years go by swiftly, never to return. Do I look down on moms who can't, or don't wish to? Hell no. I doff my hat at them and wish them the best.

2. Either one feeds the child. I was bottle fed and I'd like to think I came out ok. I personally nursed my kids and while it is absolutely natural, it is by no means instinctive and easy in the beginning. Many times I thought of switching, and did so for my first when I went back to work after 3 months. I'm fortunate again for myself in that this time around I dont have to worry about returning to work and trying to finagle in time to pump there. Also, my second is allergic to milk and soy and the only formula he can have is insanely expensive. Also, he refuses to drink the formula that costs 3 bars of gold.

3. Only in extreme emergencies, i.e. your 4 year old is reaching for a piping hot potato out of the microwave and is refusing to listen to your panicked screams to stop. A light swat > a trip to the ER with burns.

4. Like I have time to make my own baby food from organically grown fruits and veggies I don't mind stopping once in awhile for chicken nuggets, and Im fortunate my older son prefers the yogurt/apples/oranges to french fry sides. I'm also fortunate that my older son loves fruits and veggies. The only vegetable he has an issue with right now is asperagus. Sad, cause that's one of my faves. So, in moderation, I see nothing wrong with fast food.

AFK for awhile as I take my son to his swim class, but hopefully I'll have a couple minutes here and there today to check for responses. This whole Mommy War has intrigued and disgusted me, not so much the differing opinions, but the vehemence that so many people use when trying to convey that their way is the only way and everyone else is a horrible person.

Danalog and I have started to talk about this because we are thinking of trying for kids after we make the Seattle move. So here's my bit:

1. I want to stay at home in the beginning, for the first year or so, because I have this great fear of day cares. I worked at one, and I know how bad the teachers can mess up your child morally and mentally. Plus when you leave a baby in day care (at least the one I worked for - even though I was working with elementary and middle schoolers) the only time they are touched or held is when they need fed or changed. I don't want my baby to go untouched. My parents apparently always held/hugged/cuddled me when I was a baby, and I was apparently very content all through my childhood. After the first year or so though, Danalog can do his work (from home still) and take care of the critter.

2. This one really depends on if you are able to breast feed or not. When my sister had her son, she just didn't produce milk much at all, so even though she wanted to breast feed, she couldn't. Assuming my mammories are working normally, I want to breast feed. And I won't just whip it out in public, that's what blankets are for. When breast feeding, the child bonds with its mother, learns her scent when it is a newborn, and if I have the milk there, why not put it to good use?

3. I was spanked very rarely as a child, but when I have children, I think spanking is out. There are other and far more creative ways of punishment than just resorting to spanking.

4. I'm going organic-only when I am preggers, just because I don't want all that funky stuff going to my baby (hormones in beef and antibiotics in chicken, etc.).
When they are little I will probably stick mostly to organic food just because we love organic food. And there are plenty of kid-friendly organic brands (Annie's to name one). Doesn't mean that my kids are never going to go to Checker's or Chipotle. Just not McD's.

I do agree with the "Imminent Danger" spanking clause though.

1. Career Mom vs Stay at Home Mom

I am a SAHM and I am thankful for it. I'll be back to work in 5 years or so.

2. Breast or Bottle

Breast, in my case. I hardly ever nurse in public. I plan to be home for feedings. I don't give a crap if other mommies want to bottle feed. People should mind their own business.

3. To Spank, or Not To Spank

I personally don't spank but I've been close, I can tell you that. The terrible twos earned a reputation for good reason.

4. Organic only Foods? Fast Food OK?

I don't generally buy organic food, though I did buy jarred organic baby food. Mia gets McDs about once a week, after we go to Gymboree. It's a treat for both of us. She doesn't eat a lot of food anyway.

1. Career Mom vs Stay at Home Mom

2. Breast or Bottle (keep in mind kids need to eat in public too, when answering)

3. To Spank, or Not To Spank

4. Organic only Foods? Fast Food OK?



1. Stay at home. I'd be a stay at home dad if money were no object. My wife and I both agree that it's better to raise your kids yourself with your own values rather than sending them off to daycare to let society raise them. We spend as much time as humanly possible with our kids.

2. Breast for at least the first 6-9 months. So many health and developmental implications. I couldn't care less about what society thinks or does not think (re:public).

3. I've learned a lot from raising 4 kids. All I can say is threatening spankings for hurting another person seems to work well. I've rarely ever had to follow through. Beyond this time-outs and taking away things the child likes (grounding) works well. Things change at the teen years though.

4. Everything in moderation.

I sent that article you linked to Mr. Ambrya, because just a few weeks ago, we were having a discussion in which he was trying to attach a dollar figure to the value of a "homemaker" type situation, which rolls the duties of daycare, chauffeur service, housekeeping, and personal chef all in one. I don't remember the figure he came up with, but I think it was well over $100,000, so I think he'll enjoy the article.

I think a lot of the "mommy wars" is media hype, with talk shows and magazine articles deliberately trying to create an "either-or" conflict, but yeah, sometimes there are some who get pretty self-righteous about their choices. It's sometimes hard not to fall into that trap, because sometimes you find yourself in a position where you are (happily) sacrificing something or going the extra mile to do something you know will be better for your child, and then you encounter someone who never even tried, sometimes because they just felt it was more trouble than they were willing to go to.

I WANT women to have choices. The more choices, the better. But what's more, I want them to be EDUCATED about their choices before they make them, and what tends to bother me isn't when women make different choices, it's when it becomes apparent they never bothered to get all the facts before making those choices. This means, for example, KNOWING the potential health drawbacks of formula-feeding before choosing not to breastfeed. I also feel parenting does call for a lot of sacrifice, and find myself troubled when I encounter people who behave as though it doesn't, and make their choices accordingly, based not upon what is best for their child, but what is most expedient/convenient for themselves.

I wouldn't criticize someone's choices aloud, but I might secretely roll my eyes a bit from time.

1) If I had my 'druthers, I'd be a stay at home mom. I've just known too many people who did everything right as far as checking out the credentials and operation of their chosen daycare venue and ended up with their kids in neglectful and/or abusive situations anyway. This really isn't an option, however--we're barely treading water financially. I have to complete my education and get back into the workforce. If I'd gotten into my school of choice this year, it actually would have been pretty nice, as the school has a policy of allowing new moms to bring their babies up to 4 months of age, and will allow daycare providers to bring the baby to campus during breaks for breastfeeding moms. As it is, it's probably worked out better that I didn't get in this year--now I'll have until next spring to be with the baby, school will only keep me out of the house a few days a week, and my mother-in-law will be doing daycare, for free.

I understand some people just can't afford to not work (though I think sometimes, if people did the math, they would realize they are actually paying more for daycare and gas than they end up making), and that some people are so invested in their careers they don't want to give it up, and I respect that. But in one memorable incidence, I encountered a woman who said she HAD to work full time because she couldn't stand being around her kids that much of the time, and that bothered me. If you dislike your children so much that you have to spend a full third or more of the day away from them, there's something seriously wrong with your family dynamic. Work should not be something you use to run away from your kids.


2) I'll admit it, I'm a bit of a boob ****. I think we should encourage everyone to at least try breastfeeding, and not with the half-hearted lip-service we presently pay toward it, but truly equip women with the tools they need to succeed. Most women who try breastfeeding and say it didn't work (it was too painful, she didn't have enough milk, etc) if you investigate their stories, you will find that they were 1) given bad advice by care providers and the people around them, and 2) had insufficient support/resources for handling difficulties.

True, formula is not rat poison, most of us here were probably raised on it and survived okay. But then--just because someone survived something doesn't mean it's necessarily the optimal option. There are child-rearing books from the 60s and 70s that suggest putting babies in a laundry basket with a pillow in it for trips in the car. Most of us as babies were probably carried in our parents' laps in the car, unbuckled. Just because we survived our childhoods without car seats and seat belts, should we forego those for our own children?

I recognize that breastfeeding isn't for everyone--some people can't swing it physically (rare, but it happens) and others get bad advice/poor support that leads to insufficient milk production and necessitates formula supplementation. I only find myself doing the ::headdesk:: at people who don't even try or even consider trying, the ones who excuse their choice by calling it "icky" or screeching, "I'm not a cow!" which, while it may justify their personal choice, is frankly offensive to anyone who chooses differently.

I do believe that if more people were educated about the health benefits to both mother and baby, and saw breastfeeding as the cultural norm rather than something to be hidden away behind locked doors in dark rooms that it has become in our puritanical society, more people would choose to breastfeed. I think most of the ones who don't simply aren't all that well educated about it.


3) As I've said before, I don't think the occasional swat as a deterent in extreme situations is going to do any damage. If you're having to threaten your kid with physical violence for any infraction, however, you're doing something wrong, and it's become an ineffective tool.


4) I'm making the switch to organic dairy because I really don't want my kids going through puberty at age 8, thankyouverymuch. I try to stick with free-range, hormone-free meats and products when possible, but finances are a consideration. If we drank more than 2-3 gallons of milk a month, we probably couldn't afford organic milk at $6 a gallon.

The occasional french fry won't kill the kids, but I'd rather they see it as a rare treat and not a daily dietary staple.

Now, I do this, but not to a day care. A couple times a week when my husband gets home, I'll pop out for a breather, and either go out to run some errands without the kids with me, or just drive around and recharge my batteries. Not for long, usually 30 minutes or so. But for myself, it has been an amazing way to clear my head and not get bogged down with the tantrums of the day, remembering that this too shall pass (if its been a bad day). It also helps me reconnect with myself. I'm Mommy 24/7 and Wife, but sometimes I need to be just "me". Plus its the only time I can turn the volume up to my favorite music without having to worry about lil ear drums popping

By the time I get home, I'm a much more relaxed person and ready to face anything. My kids also benefit by having some solo time with dad, which they dont get often enough since hes been working long hours lately

This merely points out the fact that day-care workers, teachers and nurturers in general are seriously underpaid.

Though I agree that putting a dollar amount to the worth of a mother (stay at home or otherwise) is ludicruous. Distinguishing in dollar amounts between 'stay-at-home' moms and 'working' moms is even more ridiculous. Do the people writing these articles suggest that because a mom has to go work during the day that they then do not do the laundry, cook the dinner, help with the homework, coach the little league team, etc, etc..

Wonder if a stay at home Dad is worth more than a stay-at home mom???

1. Career Mom vs Stay at Home Mom
Apparently, Joph's financing a nanny so I can stay out and make myself pretty all day. Ideally, I'd go back to work as soon as I was able. Warm fuzzies aside, kids cost money.

2. Breast or Bottle (keep in mind kids need to eat in public too, when answering)If I'm sleeping and you need to keep the bugger quiet, sure, use my boob, but don't wake me. In public, I'd prefer pumped breast milk. I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with pulling out my mammaries at Nordstrom.

3. To Spank, or Not To Spank
That's the kid's decision more than mine. If you're gonna be a little bastage, you take whatcha got comin' to ya.

4. Organic only Foods? Fast Food OK?
Depends on whether or not I feel like cooking.

I disagree, at least on the part of in-home daycare workers. Educators are a separate field entirely for a bunch of reasons. But simply tending, even lovingly, to children isn't exactly a skilled labor market; people have been doing it successfully for over ten thousand years.

Edited, May 3rd 2007 2:11pm by Jophiel

Honestly, I'd leave it up to the mother. I personally have no problem with going either direction AS LONG AS there is proper supervision and care for the child if the mother is at work.

For me, if money isn't a problem, I'd be a stay-at-home father. I only get to see my kids grow up once.



Breastfeeding.

I feel like that breastfeeding establishes a connection between the baby and the mother early on, not to mention that according to this study, breastmilk is the best source of nurishment for babies.

In public...I'd still say breastfeeding. Just don't have to do it openly or anything.



Imminent danger preferably only.

I don't like hurting people in general, but I do believe that a spanking should get the message across when the situation is important enough to warrant it.



Nearly all of the meals should be cooked and be healthy. But honestly, I don't see anything wrong with going to McDonalds once in awhile. The thing is to not depend on fast food for the child's main nourishment.

1. Kids need time with Mommy, but Mommy needs her own time. No issues with working parents (I was the stay-at-home Dad while Noblet was ickle). Some folks just have to work. No biggy to me.

2. Breast. The obvious benefits to breastfeeding don't need repeating, but I think the 2 main hurdles are poor support for new Moms and some stupid stigma about public breastfeeding. When new Moms do get advice it's often biased, and those that need advice and moral support if they try get it all to rarely.
Some may take an informed decision to bottle feed. 's OK. Some simply can't.


3. Some parents abuse their kids with cigarette ends and knives. They are evil bastages and provide no argument against a decisive and measured smack to the bum or hand. Meanwhile, back in the real world (Terrible 2's etc), most parents live with the guilt of having delivered a smack delivered in temper. Shit happens.

4. All been said. Fast Food as an occasional 'treat', sure, but what pisses me off is that good wholesome food can take less time and money than a trip to McKentucky King