Fashionism?Follow

I need the apples to pull off the act.

Oh... you said appeals, never mind.

Not so much in SF, but yeah.

It is not an interesting question.

Why?

Because understanding the reasoning behind costume requirements in certain social situations is pretty basic. Because expecting culture to be rational is a very childish stance. Your argument for ending an irrational cultural trait programmed into us shows a rather large ignorance in terms of how you understand 'culture' and how it affects us.

Because when others point out these very obvious flaws in your line of reasoning you hop to perhaps the most intellecually inept logical fallacies to support your sh'itty thread.

/shrug

*Shrug* Well, I guess that's where we're at an impass then.

Jesus, what an idiot.

Alternately, you could become a beatnik.

He did kinda have that City Lights thing going on, back in the day.

Well perhaps I am stupid/dumb/an cnut, but it's not for lack of trying. I had no personal experience or bias which provoked this thread, it was simple curiosity, and if you can't explain it to me in a way that I understand, then that suggests to me an inadequacy on your part, not mine. It's not like I'm defending a personal position; I dress the way I want to dress and no one has a problem with it.



Well that's a matter of opinion, isn't it. You're always invited to leave :)



Understanding the reasoning behind it and agreeing with the reasoning are different things altogether.



Not quite sure what you mean by that. Ethnographic studies often reveal the reasoning behind cultural norms. If you're simply saying that culture isn't rational, well that was kind of my point to begin with... that it's an irrational standard. If you're saying that culture shouldn't be rational, I disagree.



And why is that? What makes you think it's "programmed" into us? I imagine humanity began in the nude. Yes, dress has commonly been used to signify different roles and positions, but what reason is there that if approached conscientiously, those conventions can't be changed? Are you telling me that you think it's somehow impossible NOT to judge someone based on their dress?

It really seems to me like I'm not the one being obtuse; rather that others are perhaps trying to justify their own discriminatory tendencies.



I wouldn't say I see convention as oppression, just that I question its grounds as a convention in the first place. Most conventions exist to make life simpler, and I don't really see how this does. Furthermore, I do think "convention" is being used frequently as an excuse for oppression.



I'm not sure what wasn't clear about that statement. I was simply pointing out that people often don't want to dress a certain way, they only do so because they are ordered/expected too, and it's easier to change your clothes and keep your job than it is to, say, accept lifelong oppression over something that you can't change.

In other words, there was nothing wrong with the way they were in the first place, but it was easier to change given their options.

@Nobby, see, I wouldn't ever expect you to do that because it in no way inhibits your ability to do your job. Just seems kind of eh, stupid to me that in the workplace you not only can judge a book by its cover, you expect it.

But I'm glad you have an understanding? boss.


But this whole discussion has begun to digress somewhat (not that I'm surprised). I didn't start it purely in the context of the workplace; I also wanted to discuss the other instances of discrimination that might occur due to fashion. Wouldn't most people judge someone differently based on what they were wearing if they were crossing paths with them in a dark alley? Do you think fashion ever makes the difference between being let off with a warning or a $200 ticket? Are you more likely to smile at a passing stranger that you think looks nice despite really knowing anything about them (assuming no sexual interest)?

Pretty evident that most of you think judging someone based on dress in the workplace is an acceptable practice, but there are many other settings in which fashion plays a role in the way a person is treated.

I wear only wear ties as convention allows :p

And make you make only make sense in your own head, right?

No, you were directly comparing, and using as a buttress to your argument, that those that accept lifelong oppression over something that they can't change and those that can change their clothes are the same. DO you really think we can't read up 4 posts?

Now you seem to be shifting it. But see it's all about priorities. No one OWES you a lucrative suit-wearing job. You're more than allowed to clean gutters or write code than ponce out in front of a client in your puffy, pirate shirt, tattoos and nose rings for the tasty commission.

You made your choices, the employer made theirs. WHy do you feel that yours should supercede anyones?

(in case you missed it on the whole racial comparison - I'd draw a picture but you ate my crayons - the key point there is CHOICE. Say it. CH like chalk OI like "Oi I'm bring oppressed!", Ssssss like the latte machine you ride every day)

But it's not faiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiir! I wanna be accepted for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, no for the way I dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeess.