Fashionism?Follow

I heart this ideal.

I knooowww. Then I'd get to run around dressed like this. (Hopefully the legs would come with the outfit).

It is sn irrational tradition that can't be done away with. Which seems to be what you are missing. You can't rationally argue against a irrational cultural tradition that is ingrained upon us from such an early age to the point where it is in the subconscious.

As a person you could very easily delude yourself that dress doesn't matter according to occassion. However the first time you saw someone dressed come to work dressed as a giant chicken or perhaps with no shirts and nipple clamps on you would have an gut reaction where you judged their dress based on the cultural norms ingrained into you and you would probably laugh or think they were a weirdo.

Edited, Apr 27th 2007 4:43pm by bodhisattva

[Channeling gbaji]

So you admit that this tragedy had nothing to do with time honored adherence to our God-given right to bear arms, but was down to the fact that he was a ****, and probably wearing clothes manufactured in out-sourced 'fruit of the loom' factories in Asia?

[/Channeling gbaji]

I am all for workplace attire that is pretty simple and straightforward. I envy men who can go for the suit b/c it seems like a simpler life. But usually black skirts and dresses and grey pants, tweed, etc. etc. serve my purposes. Simple is often the most chic and flattering. And it doesn't make waves while being appropriate.

When I do my job, I am understated b/c I don't want to draw attention to my appearance b/c it distracts from people concentrating on the job. Plus people don't take you seriously and I'm not sure I want to put out a ton of effort for some fashion anticonformity thing when I could put out that effort to do my job and get respect.

I work alot on social justice causes and some people shoot themselves in the foot b/c they conform to some antiestablishment way of dressing--too many buttons and other 60s throwbacks-- or they try to be punk rock. Either way, it becomes about fashion and you further marginalize yourself from even the people who you are trying to advocate for. You walk the walk in superficial stuff like fashion so you can really fight for more important things, like social policy.

I don't know if clothes make the man. When I meet people who make a lot of effort to look different, I generally find that their appearance is the most interesting part of them.

Edited, Apr 27th 2007 6:29pm by Annabella

Oh sure, some people do express style, but usually that seems effortless.

I understand how and why it's normal, but that's not really my point. My question is of ethics. Could you please delineate to me how your rationale for it being acceptable is any different than justifying racism, sexism, etc...? I mean isn't that the same as saying that if racism is a part of the culture, then it's ok?

Just because something is normal, prevalent, or even natural, does not necessarily make it ok, no? I mean, I'm not trying to fix the world through fashion here or anything, just a little conversation.

I dunno about that - apparently I was a guy here up until a few weeks ago.

Sure, but how many times in the last few weeks have you changed your shirt?

Does it matter? The point being that the two aren't even in the same league. If I was an oppressed minority, I'd probably be pretty annoyed to have someone compare the trials I faced with someone who can't be bothered to wear a shirt appropriate to the situation.

I don't know, you're saying that they're different because you can't choose to be a different gender or race... so if you -could- choose a different gender or race, would you expect them to become a white male so that they would be "appropriate"?

Not that I'm calling you prejudiced, I'm just pointing out that whether it's a personal choice or not is not necessarily relevant when dealing with diversity. If there's nothing wrong with it in the first place, what right does anyone have to say that they will "tolerate it" or "prohibit it?" To me that's the whole issue. It's the difference between saying, "You can't help it that you're black, so it's ok," or, "There's nothing wrong with being black."

So to answer your question, yes, it matters (to me).

No, I'm pretty sure he's saying that you're minimizing actual oppression to "prove" your point.



You're sorta slow, ain't ya?

Lemme try to dumb it down for you. There are two basic situations here:

1) You're applying for/employed in a customer-facing position that requires you to wear a suit, not your ratty bathrobe and bunny slippers. But you LIKE you're ratty bathrobe - that's the image you like to project. Unfortunately your employer would like to project an image of a professional which, by that industry's standards, means wearing a suit. Why should they pay you to project an image that is not theirs?

How is this different than race? As Joph said, you can take off the bathrobe and put on a suit.

2) You show up to an interview in some RebelWear with a take it or leave it this is who I am attitude. See a lot of jobs require interaction with other people and if you're going to be a constant source of disruption with your Popeye "I yams what I yams" schtick then you're probably not going to be much of a team player either. Get it?



And this is just bass-ackward.

Or an androgyne. Jury's still out, apparently.