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#52 Apr 30 2007 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Celcio wrote:
(Wait would Pally would be an ideal PvP meatshield levelling partner for a mage?)


Just about. Mage is a great partner for any class, actually; but a class with a rez is really ideal.

Tirlana and Baz leveled up a mage/druid combo, for example.

Paladins do very well in PvP, mainly because they're so frustratingly hard to kill. Alliance is getting to see that from the other side, nowadays.

/nod

Holy paladins are Gods in Arena PvP right now, but they're toning down (read: nerfing) one of their main Holy talents in the upcoming patch, as I'm sure you're well aware.

Pretty much any class with a healing spell will do well with mages. Priests have the added benefit of Shield spells, but if you want true versatility, roll a druid.
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#53 Apr 30 2007 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
Read the last part of what I wrote again, then compliment yourself on agreeing with me.
I knew I was. However, I thought you only played EQ to level 20 or something. I was just adding to the argument.


I didn't even get that far. However I have played other games where grouping was the only way to level and actually made it to the end game! So I thought I would pre-empt any 'Forced Grouping = Better Community/Players' by nipping it in the bud so to speak. Because it is not forced grouping that is the difference, it is the 'size' community. It is not the fact that WoW is 'solo friendly' that causes the large amount of @#%^wits, it is the fact that it is 10 times the size of any other MMO so you are bound to run into more of them.

Edited, Apr 30th 2007 3:45pm by bodhisattva
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#54 Apr 30 2007 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
Samira wrote:
They were there (although I'd argue that the worst EQ player I ever met would do well in WoW); my point is that you generally knew who they were.

At least I did, on Innoruuk.


I'd agree with this. By the time I got to Orc Highway I ws already keeping a list of people to never group with again. So while a group-oriented game may not make it impossible for bad players to reach high-level, it affords you more opportunities to meet these retards and avoid them in the future, and also to meet folks you mesh well with, and continue to group with for many levels. This sort of community self-policing is one of my favorite things about MMO's, wherein one gains a reputation and is actually remembered for it. It's actually facilitated by a smaller, tight-knit population and a hesitance to just throw toons away and start from scratch.

In close to five years of pretty much daily EQ playing, I had some low-level alts, but mainly played my ranger(who ended at 55, but had his epics, wewt) and my bard who I started later and was level 65 when I left for WoW. Both of these characters had great reputations, people outside of my guild knew me as a leader and a good player. Why? Because we played together, and we enjoyed it, instead of grouping with folks only when it served our own selfish wants.

I absolutely hate that about newer games where soloing is so prevelant. People get together to do a quest or two, an instance, and when it's over they disband and go their seperate ways without more than a few words. It's the opposite of community.

I'm rambling and I don't care, but what I'm saying is that for the most part I really don't dig this genre anymore because of how watered down and accesible it has become. I'm an elitist prick and I thought everyone else here was too. I want to ostracize people and have it mean something, that's what I need out of my gaming.
#55 Apr 30 2007 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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/Holy Paladin rant

Demea wrote:
Holy paladins are Gods in Arena PvP right now, but they're toning down (read: nerfing) one of their main Holy talents in the upcoming patch, as I'm sure you're well aware.


I've been through all the stages of grief about the Illumination nerf and finally come to a conclusion.

There were a lot of Paladins focusing solely on +spell crit gear and getting 30%+ crit rates. This is why Illumination is getting nerfed, obviously. This along with Spiritual Attunement lead to some rather ridiculous mana efficiency.

The problem is that a Holy Pally in +healing and +mp5 is still going to get hit with a 15-20%net reduction in healing efficiency. In a PvP setting I will still do well, no doubt. On boss fights I am able to keep tanks alive no sweat but when other classes start taking damage and I have to split my heals I bleed mana hard and start falling behind, with the reduction to healing I am going to be having it very rough time on a number of fights even with gear that is not +spell crit. A number of instances on Heroic can be written off entirely.

So we have a nerf to a core ability aimed at people with +spell crit, which is also nerfing those who don't focus on it and hurting our ability to main heal instances which was our one function where we were excelling. The change needed to be done but the way they are doing it seems knee jerk. Especially considering the other two paladin trees both need CONSIDERABLE work to become viable.

Edited, Apr 30th 2007 3:57pm by bodhisattva
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#56 Apr 30 2007 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm rambling and I don't care, but what I'm saying is that for the most part I really don't dig this genre anymore because of how watered down and accesible it has become. I'm an elitist prick and I thought everyone else here was too. I want to ostracize people and have it mean something, that's what I need out of my gaming.



Too bad you didn't really make it to end game in EQ, then. You'd have loved being in a raid guild. (How's that for elitist? Snippy enough?)

Some people in my guild along with a couple of other end-game guilds created an alt guild called "Legions of Ducks and Bunnies". The tag line on our server was, "No, you can't join." Daily loot postings included whatever Emperor Crush dropped, along with rusty daggers and small cloth caps.

Good times, and good times in a way that most WoW players would not appreciate, at all.
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#57 Apr 30 2007 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
/Holy Paladin rant


Ah, you're holy - that explains why you couldn't be ***** to answer my tanking question on the pally boards - ninny.

Demea - Oooh interesting on the druid. They always *seem* interesting but I've yet to get one past 23... (the reality is much different than the dream, sadly)

#58 Apr 30 2007 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea - Oooh interesting on the druid. They always *seem* interesting but I've yet to get one past 23... (the reality is much different than the dream, sadly)

To be honest, I've never played one past the late teens, but I've grouped with several very good druids. The standard leveling build is undoubtably feral, but that doesn't mean you can't shift out of cat/bear form, heal up, then shift right back and get to business. Plus, you actually regen mana while in feral forms!

The soloing (and therefore duoing) efficiency is simply ludicrious.


"Ludicrious speed? Sir, we've never gone that fast before. I'm not sure if the ship can take it."
"What's the matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken?!"
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Jophiel wrote:
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#59 Apr 30 2007 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
Samira wrote:
Too bad you didn't really make it to end game in EQ, then. You'd have loved being in a raid guild. (How's that for elitist? Snippy enough?)


Oh Sami, I never lost faith in you. It's the rest of these cUnts I'm wondering about.

And FYI, I was part of a raiding alliance containing three "family" type guilds. I even lead raids and was an integral part of kicking one of the guilds out of the alliance, because they were too newbish.
#60 Apr 30 2007 at 12:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Quote:
Demea - Oooh interesting on the druid. They always *seem* interesting but I've yet to get one past 23... (the reality is much different than the dream, sadly)

To be honest, I've never played one past the late teens, but I've grouped with several very good druids. The standard leveling build is undoubtably feral, but that doesn't mean you can't shift out of cat/bear form, heal up, then shift right back and get to business. Plus, you actually regen mana while in feral forms!

The soloing (and therefore duoing) efficiency is simply ludicrious.


"Ludicrious speed? Sir, we've never gone that fast before. I'm not sure if the ship can take it."
"What's the matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken?!"


The problem is? Feral Druid at low lvls reminds me too much of the pally grind...


It burrrrrnnnnnnnsssssss!


ok fine what's your frelling mage's name - but you should know, PvP makes me all askeert Oh that and I'm trying to get my 66 pally to 70...
#61 Apr 30 2007 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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Celcio wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
/Holy Paladin rant


Ah, you're holy - that explains why you couldn't be ***** to answer my tanking question on the pally boards - ninny.


Your talent builds were fine for the most part, I'd drop vindication though. Never a big fan of it. Other than that the admin cyamarin did a fine job answering your build questions.

As for CoT and other instances such MT where certain mobs will leach your mana to zero, well your SOL.

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#62 Apr 30 2007 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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ok fine what's your frelling mage's name - but you should know, PvP makes me all askeert Oh that and I'm trying to get my 66 pally to 70...

Demea, on the Anetheron server. Alliance side. I'll even hook you up with a guild invite to TFS, the Allakhazam guild (although I warn you that they're mostly WoW Main Forum posters, with Aadyn and myself as the only regular Asylumites).
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Jophiel wrote:
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#63 Apr 30 2007 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
As for CoT and other instances such MT where certain mobs will leach your mana to zero, well your SOL.


Bah the builds I pretty much knew what the responses were it was THAT that interested me! I think those other pallies LIE! LIE LIKE RUGS!

But I'm going to try to see if my guild will indulge me to try it at least once.

If not then I'm going to beg them to let me be a ramora on their skills - MAN that'd be a great toon name - maybe that will be my druid on Demea's Server!
#64 Apr 30 2007 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
I'll even hook you up with a guild invite to TFS


So... you'll also paint a target on my back? :-P

I know you guys, I've been on the class forums enough!


#65 Apr 30 2007 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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How is TFS doing in terms of raid progression?

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#66 Apr 30 2007 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
How is TFS doing in terms of raid progression?

They're in the middle of Kara, and fielding two groups at the moment. They should be pretty solid when they get to the 25-man content, since there are several people quickly approaching 70, and others that don't show up 100% of the time due to RL issues.
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Jophiel wrote:
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#67 Apr 30 2007 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Quote:
ok fine what's your frelling mage's name - but you should know, PvP makes me all askeert Oh that and I'm trying to get my 66 pally to 70...

Demea, on the Anetheron server. Alliance side. I'll even hook you up with a guild invite to TFS, the Allakhazam guild (although I warn you that they're mostly WoW Main Forum posters, with Aadyn and myself as the only regular Asylumites).


I'm in this guild too!

Granted, I only play once a week and I think I'm topped out at lvl 14, but I'm there!

No, don't ask me what my character's name is. Starts with an S... I'd guess I'm the only lvl 14 priest in the guild.
#68 Apr 30 2007 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
I'd guess I'm the only lvl 14 priest in the guild.


Priest? No felhound?

That's it I'm deleting my toon there.

#69 Apr 30 2007 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Celcio wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'd guess I'm the only lvl 14 priest in the guild.


Priest? No felhound?

That's it I'm deleting my toon there.



I have 4 (5?) warlocks scattered over 3 servers. It was time to branch out.

but I've thought of making a warlock on this server, too
#70 May 04 2007 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
I absolutely hate that about newer games where soloing is so prevelant. People get together to do a quest or two, an instance, and when it's over they disband and go their seperate ways without more than a few words. It's the opposite of community.
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it is the casual community. i have played both. the community wasnt really that much closer in EQ. in any guild you had a hand full of people who joked around alot and were memorable, but for the most part, people helped each other because they HAD to or they were not going to get help with their quests. not because they WANTED to.

dont get it confused that just becasue people were more helpfull, it was because they were a better group and WANTED too.

same players. i would bet 90 percent of the people who USED to play EQ are or have played WoW. same people. only differance is....they dont HAVE to any more. bang, a quest is done, off to another. no more 4 ot 6 hour playing sessions because they HAD to if they wanted their epic. anyone remember the necro epic plane of sky part? rofl. i guarentee you not a one person who completed that quest WANTED to do a 8 to 10 hour raid.......for one person......

same people. just less restrictions on how you HAVE to play.
#71 May 04 2007 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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the community wasnt really that much closer in EQ. in any guild you had a hand full of people who joked around alot and were memorable, but for the most part, people helped each other because they HAD to or they were not going to get help with their quests. not because they WANTED to.


My experience couldn't have been more different.

As to your sociorectal stats.... At its peak EQ had about 10% as many subscribers as currently play WoW. The number of former EQ players in WoW is a tiny percentage of the whole. Ergo, not "the same people".

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#72 May 05 2007 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
the same people who played EQ are the same people playing WoW. yes, WoW has more, but the people you found in EQ can be found in WoW too.

i see alot of whinning about the players in WoW, but you know what? i read alot of whinning about players in EQ too when it was new. not to mention the intentional training, kill stealing, camp stealing, and a whole lot of GM petitioning.

funny how quickly we forget the bad stuff.

it is people in general. i joined a guild for older players, and they play several games. same people, a whole lot less grief and "leet duddez" in chat. it fits me. you just have to find a guild that fits you. they are out there, just have to look. and they wont be the ones spamming you with guild invites, they will be the ones that invite you after playing with you a few times.

but you can find the same community in any of the online games out right now. just have to look. you can find the same griefing in any of them too, unfortunatly, you dont really have to look very hard for that.

the guild im in plays WoW, EQ2, now Vanguard. we did D&D online for a couple months too.

as long as your guild has its own web site, and not one sponsered by sony, you dont have to loose your guild when you leave a particular game.

but alot of people expect to get into a great guild right away, and expect them to help them eny time they might need something. then, they dont bother to visit the web sites, or sign up for dungons or raids, or dont show up when they are posted, or are too busy "dpong their own thing" when it happens and they are on line.

you get what you give with a good guild. you give and give and give and get nothing in return from the "everyone is welcome" guilds. just been my experience anyway.
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