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#1 Apr 26 2007 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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OSLO, Norway - Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice said Thursday she has already answered the questions she has been subpoenaed to answer before a congressional committee and suggested she is not inclined to comply with the order.


Rice said she would respond by mail to questions from the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on the Bush administration's prewar claims about
Saddam Hussein seeking weapons of mass destruction, but signaled she would not appear in person.

"I am more than happy to answer them again in a letter," she told reporters in Oslo, where she is attending a meeting of
NATO foreign ministers.

The comments were her first reaction to a subpoena issued on Wednesday by the committee chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif.

Rice said she respected the oversight function of the legislative branch, but maintained she had already testified in person and under oath about claims that
Iraq had sought uranium from Africa during her confirmation hearing for the job of secretary of state.

"I addressed these questions, almost the same questions, during my confirmation hearing," she said. "This is an issue that has been answered and answered and answered."

Rice noted that she had been serving as
President Bush's national security adviser during the period covered by the panel's questions and stressed the administration's position that presidential aides not confirmed by the Senate cannot be forced to testify before Congress under the doctrine of executive privilege.

"This all took place in my role as national security adviser," she said. "There is a constitutional principle. There is a separation of powers and advisers to the president under that constitutional principle are not generally required to go and testify in Congress.

"So, I think we have to observe and uphold the constitutional principle, but I also observe and uphold the obligation of Congress to conduct its oversight role, I respect that. But I think I have more than answered these questions, and answered them directly to Congressman Waxman."

Rice declined to respond when asked if she would absolutely refuse to testify under subpoena.

Her spokesman, Sean McCormack, said later that no final decision had been made about Rice appearing before the committee.

Waxman's committee voted 21-10 on Wednesday to subpoena Rice despite the State Department's insistence that the questions have already been answered and that the doctrine of executive privilege .

The congressman has complained for weeks that Rice and the State Department have failed to respond to questions about the claim that Saddam Hussein had tried to by uranium from Niger.


I was under the impression that you can't say no to a subpoena? Smiley: confused
#2 Apr 26 2007 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, YOU can't. The Secretary of State has a little more latitude.



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#3 Apr 26 2007 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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And is that a part of her job privileges? I wasn't aware that was considered a perk
#4 Apr 26 2007 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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And is that a part of her job privileges?

Some might call it executive privlidge even.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#5 Apr 26 2007 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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It's just more show. Waxman doesn't need to ask the question. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together now knows that the Uranium in Niger story was bogus from start to finish. The Administration knew it was bogus and ran with it anyway. Knight Ridder reported it was bogus but the WaPo and NYT ran with it anyway. No one in the administration is going to admin under oath in front of CSPAN that they knowingly lied to us. Maybe they've managed to convince themselves that it was in a good cause; after all Hussien was a VERY BAD MAN and deserved what he got.

#6 Apr 26 2007 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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It's just more show. Waxman doesn't need to ask the question. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together now knows that the Uranium in Niger story was bogus from start to finish. The Administration knew it was bogus and ran with it anyway. Knight Ridder reported it was bogus but the WaPo and NYT ran with it anyway. No one in the administration is going to admin under oath in front of CSPAN that they knowingly lied to us. Maybe they've managed to convince themselves that it was in a good cause; after all Hussien was a VERY BAD MAN and deserved what he got.


So, enjoyed the Bill Moyers special, I see.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#7 Apr 26 2007 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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And today's episode of Fresh Air; if you didn't catch it it was an interview with an Italian journalist who has written a book on the life cycle of the fake Niger Uranium documents and how they were sold to Italian intelligence who then passed on the information but not the obviously forged documents to the US and British who then confirmed the truth of the information but talking to each other.

Oh, and those aluminum tubes? the Italian government knew in 2002 that they were for a multiple-launch rocket system... because it was a weapon system originally sold to Iraq by the Italians! They knew from day one that they were not for cetrifuges but didn't say anything because Berlusconi wanted to be a team player for his buddy Dubya.
#8 Apr 26 2007 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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And today's episode of Fresh Air; if you didn't catch it it was an interview with an Italian journalist who has written a book on the life cycle of the fake Niger Uranium documents and how they were sold to Italian intelligence who then passed on the information but not the obviously forged documents to the US and British who then confirmed the truth of the information but talking to each other.

Oh, and those aluminum tubes? the Italian government knew in 2002 that they were for a multiple-launch rocket system... because it was a weapon system originally sold to Iraq by the Italians! They knew from day one that they were not for cetrifuges but didn't say anything because Berlusconi wanted to be a team player for his buddy Dubya.


Yeah, news flash: Governments lie. There was this guy in Italy once named Niccolo...
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#9 Apr 26 2007 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Your point?

Governments lie and sould be held unaccountable? Governments lie and people die and we shouldn't care or try to change things? Governments lie, people die, and we should go shopping to keep the economy going?

Real estate agents lie but if they sell you a house with a known and undisclosed flaw you can sue them. Car dealers like but most states have Lemon Laws. Advertisers lie but their are truth in advertising and fraud laws.

The (former) president lies under oath and gets impeached.

The (current) president lies in the State of the Union; lies repeatedly to Congress and the American public, and gets a free pass. Send the USSS after me cause I think someone should shoot the son of a *****.
#10 Apr 26 2007 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
The hearings are just another waste of our tax dollars, and time. They won't get any new information, and frankly if anyone hasn't heard the party line by now they have got to be dead!
#11 Apr 26 2007 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Your point?


That you're painfully naive if you think it will ever change. It's been this way for thousands of years because people, on balance, are easily manipulated. This will not change. Get used to it.


Governments lie and sould be held unaccountable? Governments lie and people die and we shouldn't care or try to change things? Governments lie, people die, and we should go shopping to keep the economy going?


Yes. Actually what we should do is work to get governments to lie the way we'd like to accomplish our goals. You can't be honest with people or they just get confused and stare blankly at the sun until they go blind. People are idiots. They need to have things dumbed down for them to a sufficient degree that they feel like they understand. It's impossible to do that while telling the truth.


Real estate agents lie but if they sell you a house with a known and undisclosed flaw you can sue them. Car dealers like but most states have Lemon Laws. Advertisers lie but their are truth in advertising and fraud laws.


Those are largely illusions that you've bought into. You see, one of the keys is convincing people that there is some recourse if they are treated unfairly. You accomplish that by creating some system of law that addresses unsubtle unfairness. People lie constantly to each other. It's how the human mind works. This idea the normal ethical state is honesty is a conceit to make the lying more effective. Really. You lie to people by telling them that they should be honest and that you feel that way so you can lie to them more effectively. You teach children that lying is wrong so that you can get more information from them to more effectively lie to them.


The (former) president lies under oath and gets impeached.


Who cares?


The (current) president lies in the State of the Union; lies repeatedly to Congress and the American public, and gets a free pass. Send the USSS after me cause I think someone should shoot the son of a *****.


Well I'd be careful with that sort of thing. Message board threats are prosecuted all the time. What you need is a disclaimer that states that you're lying, even when you aren't. Then you'll be in good shape.

Or will you?

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#12 Apr 26 2007 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Smash - was that a gbaji-esque way of saying that Black Pianists are above the law?

Damn you sir, and Damn your trouser!
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#13 Apr 26 2007 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Smash - was that a gbaji-esque way of saying that Black Pianists are above the law?


Well, blind ones certainly.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#14REDACTED, Posted: Apr 26 2007 at 12:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) DSD,
#15 Apr 26 2007 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
Damn your trouser!
Oh, I'm pretty sure everything from Old Navy is damned from the factory.
#16 Apr 26 2007 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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By Morgan Fairchild, no less.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Apr 27 2007 at 3:35 AM Rating: Decent
Smash wrote:
Actually what we should do is work to get governments to lie the way we'd like to accomplish our goals. You can't be honest with people or they just get confused and stare blankly at the sun until they go blind. People are idiots. They need to have things dumbed down for them to a sufficient degree that they feel like they understand. It's impossible to do that while telling the truth


I agree that this is true today.

But I think it's mostly because the population is poorly educated.

Politicians are not that much cleverer than ordinary people. Most of them are not. They lie because it is much easier than telling the truth. As with every other decision a human makes, it's about the balance of risk/reward. In a democracy, the "risk" from lying is low. The worst that can happen is losing an election which happens anyway, and is a medium-term worry. The rewards, on the other hand, are huge. Lying allows a freedom of action and a lack of scrutiny that can't be attained by telling the truth.

The more educated teh population is, however, the harder it is to lie. If pople are completely clueless about the world around them, then sure, you can feed them pretty much anything, like the fact that Saddam was invloved in 9/11.

If they have some idea about the rest of the world, for instance the fact that the Baathist ideology is a secular pan-Arabic nationalistic ideology, and that it is the anti-thesis of fanatical islamism, then it's already a lot harder to make them believe Saddam was involved in 9/11.

The more people know, the harder it is to lie effectively to them.

I think Democracy works proportionally better the more educated the population is. That's partly why you can't just "export" democracy to countries that have no culture of it, or no political education.

Politicians lie cos they get away with it. Like everyone else. But I think it's possible to have systems so that this is made much harder for them, until teh risk/reward ration is not in favour of lying anymore.

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#18 Apr 27 2007 at 4:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I think Democracy works proportionally better the more educated the population is.


It's not a matter of education, it's a matter of most people that vote being literally too stupid to understand the complexities of the modern world. They just simply don't have the capacity. Not everyone can be a brain surgeon, and most people would never be able to learn reason and rational though.

Sad, but it's the way it is. Ask the Catholic Church.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#19 Apr 27 2007 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
Smasharoo wrote:
It's not a matter of education, it's a matter of most people that vote being literally too stupid to understand the complexities of the modern world. They just simply don't have the capacity. Not everyone can be a brain surgeon, and most people would never be able to learn reason and rational though.

Sad, but it's the way it is. Ask the Catholic Church.



Smiley: lol

Man, you're so cynical!! I think people have the capacity, it just needs to be used from a young age. When they've reached their mid-twenties, ok, it's probably too late, but before that, I really think anyone can become a brain-surgeon. Well, maybe not "anyone", but most people at least.

It's all there, it just needs to be used better. And I think societies are, slowly, moving that way. The level of general education in the world today is significantly higher than it was 1000 years ago. I agree the progress is infuriatingly slow, but I think it's there.

Of course, I know I won't see successful and truthful politicians in my lifetime, but I do think that one day, the general population will be educated enough to make rational decisions on a relatively wide-range of subjects.

Otherwise, if there is no progress in that department, we're fUcked as a specie.


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#20 Apr 27 2007 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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naatdog wrote:
It's just more show. Waxman doesn't need to ask the question.


Of course it's show. The Dems want to milk the issue for political benefit. They'll ask questions designed to tap dance around the real issue and leak selected portions of the response so that it looks like the administration lied about something.

Why the heck do you think she's ok with sending in written responses? She want's to be able to write the information in a way that can't be misquoted out of context. She's not an idiot.

Quote:
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together now knows that the Uranium in Niger story was bogus from start to finish.


Which story? The bogus document? Of course it was. It's what's called a "red herring".

The famous "16 words" by President Bush: “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa .”. Absolutely 100% factual statement. And not just because the British Government learned it (that would be semantic trickery). Iraq *did* seek to obtain uranium from Africa (Nigeria in fact, among a couple other nations).

What was "bogus" was the claim that Iraq succeeded in obtaining Uranium. A claim that the Bush administration never made and which in fact only exists *because* of the aforementioned false document, which was also never used by anyone in the administration as support for any claim with regard to Iraq.

That's why it's a red herring. The document distracts us (you actually) from the truth by making you focus on whether or not a purchase occured, and not the actual claim that a purchase was *attempted* (which is in gross violation of the terms of the cease fire and *was* used as justification for action against Iraq).

Forget about the bogus document. Look at the words Bush spoke. Look at the conclusions that the intelligence community came to. Then compare them to the facts. You'll find that the only people lying to you are those trying to convince you that the "bogus" document somehow means that Bush lied to get us into war with Iraq.
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#21 Apr 28 2007 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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basically it's your fault for falling for it.
Too bad.
Get your own intelligence community next time your so damned worried about your country's national security.


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#22REDACTED, Posted: Apr 28 2007 at 8:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Can she do that???
#23 Apr 29 2007 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Some might call it executive privlidge even.


Wrong spelling, but yeah, executive privilege has been used by the administration before. Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, when, even after the SecDef was told he had to charge the guy with a crime, he instead gave him a take-it-or-leave-it deal: stay in a detention center indefinitely, or be sent permanently to Saudi Arabia and have your citizenship from the US revoked. Hamdi took the second option, so the case fell in on itself; the important thing is that Rumsfeld ignored the ruling of the Supreme Court. How come he wasn't arrested? Executive privilege.

Ick, corrupt governments.
#24 Apr 30 2007 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
Some might call it executive privlidge even.


Wrong spelling, but yeah, executive privilege has been used by the administration before. Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, when, even after the SecDef was told he had to charge the guy with a crime, he instead gave him a take-it-or-leave-it deal: stay in a detention center indefinitely, or be sent permanently to Saudi Arabia and have your citizenship from the US revoked. Hamdi took the second option, so the case fell in on itself; the important thing is that Rumsfeld ignored the ruling of the Supreme Court. How come he wasn't arrested? Executive privilege.

Ick, corrupt governments.


You have no clue what executive privilege is, do you?

I'll give you a hint. It has nothing at all to do with what you just talked about. Nothing...
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#25 Apr 30 2007 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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You have no clue what executive privilege is, do you?

I'll give you a hint. It has nothing at all to do with what you just talked about. Nothing...


It doesn't, does it? Does it? Let me clue you in. It doesn't. I think. I mean whatever you said, it's not that, for sure. I think it has something to do with Jefferson. Because you know, you can't argue with Jefferson. Can you? No, you can't. My balls itch. Or do they? They do, don't they? Let me make it clearer. They do. Don't they.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#26 Apr 30 2007 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes Smash. Executive privilege has everything to do with your balls itching...
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