Monday morning massacreFollow

O RLY? Seems pretty comparable, actually. You Knoxville folks really like to rape.

Edited, Apr 18th 2007 9:12am by Atomicflea

It's just a shot away.

True. Looking back on it, I was angry, and spoke more passionately than thoughtfully. I still believe, though, that had there been someone armed in this guy's way, more people would be alive today. Sadly, based on what I've learned, one of the best friends my girl had growing up would still be dead, but the rest might have been saved.

Like I've said though, after cooling off, and thinking about it, this moment can't be used for, or against, firearms. VT has very strict rules about firearms on campus, because of which, you can argue that control doesn't work (but you can argue it could work, because had he not been able to purchase these pistols legally, he likely would have had to turn to illegal sources, making things a little tougher, and more expensive, hopfully turning him from his course, but likely not), however, the state has a new bill that is set to go into effect on July 1st (assuming I read it correctly), that will bar colleges from controling firearms on campus, except in limited situations. I suppose the next 10 years will be interesting.

The only part about this law that really scares me, are the scenarios where the student just finds out they're about to fail a class, and they're armed, or there are professor/student relationships (and a couple other minor situations). What's to stop these people from whipping their pistol out and blasting the professor? I think the only way to limit these problems is to close every campus, by placing a gate at each entrance, and building a wall around the entire campus, mush like Wake Forest. This makes it easy to lock the school down, and allow for quicker reactions by security forces, and police.

For those that have argued that the school didn't do enough, they did the best they could, given the intel they had. I admit that there could have been more, but even the local police were under the assumption that the shooter had left the campus. No one, FBI included (admitted in a local interview), would have thought this guy would still be prowling the campus, looking to commit this slaughter.

Back to the whole "Gun Free Zone" canard, has anyone ever been on a college campus where carrying weapons was permitted? I'd expect all of them have prohibitions against carrying weapons either through state/local codes or else campus policy.

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/topic/article/university_of_utah_gun_lawsuit_dismissed/C60/L35/

Utah, it would seem, passed a law forcing the state university to allow students to carry guns to class over the university's objections. You can request a roommate who isn't carrying a gun though, so it's fair... No smoking, but handguns, fine.

Neither of these arguments are wrong.

Smash, people that want to carry guns are afriad. Afraid that someone else that is carrying, and going to harm them. Everyone should be afraid of this. It shouldn't overwhelm you, but it should be in the back of your mind: "Is this the day that I need to defend myself?". Not a constant though, but one you should prepare for. This isn't a rosy world. Without people willing to stand up, when others would rather cower, this would would be far more horrible than it is today. Those people that would stand are not always who you would wish to stand, but they are there standing for you.

Varus, your cavalier attitude is alarming. You give conservatives a horrible name. Where you try an use sarcasm to make your point, you fail, and instead make yourself out to be a cold, selfish, prick. While some of your arguments are correct, your attitude in making them is what will likely get you attacked one day. In your vision of the world, only you are right, and everyone else is wrong. What a lonely place it must be, and I would imagine frightening, when you are afraid of your shadow.

Everyone should be afraid of this. It shouldn't overwhelm you, but it should be in the back of your mind: "Is this the day that I need to defend myself?". Not a constant though, but one you should prepare for.

Right, people should live in fear of things that have virtually no chance of happening to them and prepare for them. That's why everyone who owns a gun for 'protection' also owns a defribulator at home in case of the much more likely event of them having to use it on someone in cardiac arrest at their house. Right?

Oh, they don't? Small **** thing, you say? I had no idea. Interesting. I do see how the gun is sort of shaped that way...

The receipt for the 9mm was in his bag.

There was an interview with the dealer who sold him the pistols. "Nice, clean college kid," was how he described him, adding somewhat defensively that he wouldn't have sold him the guns if he'd seemed odd.

This of course is in contrast with practically everyone else who ever met the kid; but hey. Gun dealers are professionals, right?

This of course is in contrast with practically everyone else who ever met the kid

Well, the people who thought he was a nice warm guy they'd like to bake cookies with probably weren't rushing out to talk to the media.


adding somewhat defensively that he wouldn't have sold him the guns if he'd seemed odd.

Which is complete BS. Any gun dealer will sell any gun to anyone they can within the law. If I showed up covered in mayonnaise wearing only Glad Cling Wrap and a pope hat reading Catcher in the Rye aloud, they'd still be more than happy to try to upsell me the leather holster to go with my handgun purchase.

Edited, Apr 18th 2007 12:04pm by Smasharoo

His background check was clean. I just don't think the gun store owner did anything wrong. He did everything he was supposed to. Until someone has a record, don't we assume he's not a psycho? He may not have looked someone in the eye or spoken in more than one word, but hell, he may have taken one look at him and attributed it to the language barrier. Who thinks an Asian is a psycho killer? Everyone assumes they're doing math and helping run the restaurant.

I just don't think the gun store owner did anything wrong.

We all agree.

The only wrong thing he did was tell the media he wouldn't have sold the kid the gun if he had seemed suspicious.

In retrospect, it's too bad one of the women he stalked didn't press charges. I understand why they didn't - hard to get a conviction even in areas where there are specific anti-stalking laws; but still. Had he been convicted, it might have prevented the purchase of the guns used.

The legal purchase, at least. There's always Bob the ad hoc gun dealer.

Anecdotes aren't data. If someone had stopped the beating by grabbing a handy baseball bat from sporting goods (or a lamp from Housewares) and braining the assailiant, I doubt you'd be accepting that as evidence that we don't need conceal-carry laws.