Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Hey look, a ****!Follow

#52 Apr 08 2007 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
*****
18,463 posts
bodhisattva wrote:
Is that near Poland?
Yes. The v's are prounounced like "w"'s.
#53 Apr 08 2007 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
bodhisattva wrote:
Is that near Poland?
Yes! Smiley: mad

If Bush is planning on vetoing the bill and then blaming Congress for the troops not having money, he might be in for a hard sell. According to Pollingreport.com:
Quote:
Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. 
March 28-29, 2007. N=1,004 adults nationwide.  MoE ± 3 (for all adults). 
 
"Do you support or oppose the legislation passed this week by the U.S. Senate 
calling for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq by March 2008?" 
                Support Oppose Unsure 		 
                   %       %      % 		 
ALL adults        57      36      7 
 
=========== 
CBS News Poll. March 26-27, 2006.  
N=831 adults nationwide. MoE ±  4 (for all adults). 
 
"Do you think the United States should or should not set a timetable for the 
withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq that would have MOST troops out by  
September 2008?" 
						 
                 Should  Should Not  Unsure 	  	  
                   %          %         % 	  	  
ALL adults        59         37         4 
 
========== 
USA Today/Gallup Poll. March 23-25, 2007. 
N=1,007  adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 
 
"Would you favor or oppose Congress taking each of the following actions in  
regards to the war in Iraq? How about [see below]?" 
 
"Setting a time-table for withdrawing all U.S. troops from Iraq no later than 
the fall of 2008" 
              Favor   Oppose   Unsure 
               60       38        2 
========= 
Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey conducted by Princeton 
Survey Research Associates International.  March 21-25, 2007. N=1,503 adults  
nationwide. MoE ±  3. RV = registered voters 
 
"And thinking about a specific proposal: The Congress is now debating future 
funding for the war in Iraq. Would you like to see your congressional 
representative vote FOR or AGAINST a bill that calls for a withdrawal of troops 
from Iraq to be completed by August of 2008?" 
Asked 3/22-25/07 only. N=1,245.  MoE ± 3.5. 
 
                 Vote For  Vote Against  Unsure 		 
                    %           %           % 		 
3/22-25/07         59          33           8
Bush might have a hard time painting Congress as the bad guys in this for attaching a timetable to the funding bill. People are opposed to Congress withholding funding, so it's important for Congress to continue to assert that it is providing funding, with the timeline the people want, and that it is Bush who is stonewalling on allowing it to happen.

Edited, Apr 8th 2007 11:54am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#54 Apr 08 2007 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
Drama Nerdvana
******
20,674 posts
So the democrats just need to clarify the issue in a clear and simple unanimous voice so that the every day american can understand the issue?

Smiley: frown

Crapsh'itf'uck.


____________________________
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#55 Apr 08 2007 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
Hi. When you submit a bill funding the troops and someone Vetos it, you didn't take away funding, they did.


Usually i like your sarcastic comments, however the Presidency does not have line item veto power. So bundled into the bill can be a small line removing funds for troops. and in turn... you have to veto the entire bill..

Second off a veto can be overturned by 2/3 majority
#56 Apr 08 2007 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Except this is a bill primarily for funding troops, not a bill promoting a holiday for kitten stomping with a line for troop funding thrown in.
Quote:
Second off a veto can be overturned by 2/3 majority
Good point. If Republicans care about getting the troops funded, they'll overturn Bush's veto.

Edited, Apr 8th 2007 8:11pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#57 Apr 08 2007 at 10:14 PM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Good point. If Republicans care about getting the troops funded, they'll overturn Bush's veto.


The point is being overlooked. When military spending bills are introduced and voted into law by congress, 90% of the bill may look good. However, they can reduce troop salary to lower than what it is currently (way less than minimum wage at the moment). Without line item veto powers (only congress can make laws), this slips through. as well as all the "pork". However, you do not veto an entire bill because there are a few bad lines in it.

So even if the bill were to be vetoed (a bill that lowered troop salaries), with a democrat controlled congress, it will be easy enough to override the president's veto and it will be enacted.


Can anyone say why Sam Fox is not qualified for that position? People have commented on the majority of my original topic, but nobody has addressed my question regarding the OP's subject... I am assuming because it is infact you cannot come up with valid reasons why the man is not QUALIFIED to do the job. Instead, it is partisan politics; all regarding personal funding to a cause or ideal you do not agree with. Ontop of which, Bush appointed him during recess which you bash for reason unknown to anyone. If Bush appointed someone perfectly qualified and capable of filling the position of Ambassadorship to Belgium, why is a big deal being made of it?

So, is there anything (aside from partisan politics) which makes Sam Fox unqualified for this position? I haven't found any, and haven't found anyone who can give a valid reason.

Jophiel wrote:
Except this is a bill primarily for funding troops, not a bill promoting a holiday for kitten stomping with a line for troop funding thrown in.


I must have missed a post. Where was a bill mentioned in which troops were getting more funding? I know cutting funding has been mentioned... but not the former.

The point I am getting at is that a democratic controlled house has a history of cutting funding to our troops because they disagree with why they are there in the first place. This is by far one of the sleaziest tactics and abuse of powers (abuse meaning; since they cannot remove the troops from their station, they will cut their funding and force the President to remove them). It outweighs appointing an Ambassador to Belgium during recess.... by a lot; but because you play partisan politics and side with the dems... it is ok for them to do such things... but if Bush or a republican does it.. you attack him.

I will side with you Joph, that what Bush did was a sleazy move... if you can show me how Fox is not qualified to be an Ambassador. I will side on it being sleazy in the fact that Bush appointed an UNQUALIFIED person during recess just so he can push a buddy through. If, however; Bush appointed him during recess because he is qualified, but was being denounced by the dems due to partisan politics... then what he did was not sleazy at all.
#58 Apr 08 2007 at 10:52 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Quote:
Where was a bill mentioned in which troops were getting more funding?
The entire purpose of the bill is to appropriate money for the war which includes troop salaries, training, maintenance and all the rest of it. I'm suprised that this was news to you.

In fact, here is the House bill. I see raises in re-enlistmentment bonuses, speciality pay, educational bonuses, referral bonuses, an easing of rules regarding benefits to surviving family members, etc. Why don't you point out the cuts in salary?
Quote:
if you can show me how Fox is not qualified to be an Ambassador
You can't prove a negative. Why don't you tell us what unique qualifications Fox was bringing to the table?

I've already said multiple times that I don't give a rat's *** about Fox. As I said, the fact that Bush had to use a recess appointment to slip in a croney ambassadorship to some minor nation shows just how weak and petulant Bush has become. Good for him and good for Fox. I don't care. My first response in this thread was that I didn't care and I haven't started caring in the meanwhile.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#59 Apr 08 2007 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I've already said multiple times that I don't give a rat's *** about Fox. As I said, the fact that Bush had to use a recess appointment to slip in a croney ambassadorship to some minor nation shows just how weak and petulant Bush has become. Good for him and good for Fox. I don't care. My first response in this thread was that I didn't care and I haven't started caring in the meanwhile.


Oh I know, saw those ones :-). But you are in fact bashing Bush for appointing a "crony" to a position which you yourself said does not matter. He may have used recess appointment to appoint a qualified person. What I will say is that normal recess appointments are done when congress is out for months at a time... not a short break. Appointing someone during a "lunch break" is rather odd, however not sleazy.

Unique qualifications? None that I know of. Qualifications? None that i know of. This is why I asked. I do not know much about Fox other than his contributions to 527 groups.

You can prove a negative. I'm not qualified to be President because I wouldn't know what the hell to do.

Your link to the bill does not work anymore since it was a cached search that gets deleted. Link to the house number?

By the way, thank you for not resorting to name calling or spelling and grammar modifications. :-)
#60 Apr 08 2007 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
borntolandhard wrote:
you are in fact bashing Bush
You have a considerably more liberal definition of "bashing" than I do.
Quote:
Link to the house number?
H.R. 1585
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#61 Apr 08 2007 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
HR 1585 is the same bill that provides funding for the troops, but also demands their withdrawal. Basically... withdraw troops and you get funding.

Obviously this bill cannot pass and Bush can choose to leave troops there. This goes against his post as Commander-in-Chief and delegates house members as commander in chiefs.

Funding for the troops only if "x" amount are removed in an allocated time table.

They are undermining the powers of the commander in chief (which is inexcusable in and of itself, at the same token.. so is undermining either/both houses) by telling him what he can and cannot do with the troops in a funding bill.

Basically it's... do what we say with the troops and we will give you money for them. Don't do what we say... veto their funding and now you look like the a.ss.



Edited, Apr 9th 2007 3:51am by borntolandhard
#62 Apr 09 2007 at 4:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
borntolandhard wrote:
HR 1585 is the same bill that provides funding for the troops, but also demands their withdrawal.
Well... yeah. Welcome to the thread Smiley: dubious
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#63 Apr 09 2007 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts

This goes against his post as Commander-in-Chief and delegates house members as commander in chiefs.


No, it delegates house members as having control over funding. You know, like it says in the Constitution?

Bush can give whatever orders he wants to the military. What he can't do is arbitrarily spend money without congressional approval.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#64 Apr 09 2007 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
Re: Sam Fox's qualifications to be a diplomat anywhere. If he can't finesse this exchange any better than he did (having had time to prepare, mind you; knowing it would inevitably come up), then I certainly don't want him tap-dancing around the truth on my behalf.

Quote:
Kerry: Let me ask a few questions that go to something that I think is important, which is a question of both a combination of citizenship and judgment, if you will, is the way I might phrase it. And I want to try to ask these questions as fairly as possible, and not try to play some kind of gotcha game here, I assure you. But it's important to me in thinking through this issue of judgment to explore this a little bit.

I assume that you believe that the truth in public life is important.

Fox: Yes, sir.

Kerry: And might I ask you what your opinion is with respect to the state of American politics, as regards the politics of personal destruction?

Fox: Senator, I am on record more than one time, several times, being interviewed by the press and particularly the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. And I am very concerned with the amount of money that's going into politics and I'm more concerned about the fact that politics has become mean and destructive. And, when I was interviewed in 2000, I said that I was very… I was for campaign finance reform because I felt that if less money was going into politics, it would turn the whole volume down. And if we turn the volume down, I would hope there would be less meanness and destructiveness.

When 527s came along, I had the very same thing to say about them. So that's the way I feel and, Senator, let me just say this: I'm against 527s, I've always been against 527s. I think, again, they're mean and destructive, I think they've hurt a lot of good, decent people.

And, Senator Kerry, I very much respect your dedicated service to this country. I know that you were not drafted -- you volunteered. You went to Vietnam. You were wounded. Highly decorated. Senator, you're a hero. And there isn’t anybody or anything that's going to take that away from you.

But yet 527s tried to.

And with the same token, on the other side of the aisle, 527s, one 527 went so far as to compare the president of the United States with Adolph Hitler. So I am on public record as being against 527s because of all the meanness and I'm against the amount of money that goes into political campaigns, for the same reason. Not once or twice, but three or four times. And I would just, I wish, that Congress could find a way to either ban 527s or at least regulate them.

Kerry: I certainly appreciate the comments you just made, Mr. Fox, and I'm not looking for anyone to call me a hero. I think that most heroes died, and do die, and those of us who are lucky enough to get out of there are lucky.

But notwithstanding the comments you made, you did see fit to contribute a very significant amount of money in October to a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, correct?

Fox: Correct.

Kerry: Why would you do that given what you just said about how bad they are?

...

Fox: Well, I think with most contributors and if you go to the other side of the political campaigns and we give to individual candidates, we don’t know how they’re going to use that money and what…

Kerry: Well at least it's accountable to an individual candidate for whom people have to vote or not vote. 527s as you said are mean, ugly and not accountable.

Fox: I agree with that. I absolutely agree with that.

Kerry: Why would you give $50,000 to a group you have no sense of accountability for?

Fox: Well, because if 527s were banned, then it's banned for both parties. And so long as they’re not banned…

Kerry: So two wrongs make a right?

Fox: Well, I don’t know, but if one side is contributing then the other side…

Kerry: But is that your judgment? Is that your judgment that you would bring to the ambassadorship? That two wrongs make a right?

Fox: No, I didn’t say that two wrongs make a right, sir.

Kerry: Why would you do it then?

Fox: Well, I did it because politically, it's necessary if the other side is doing it.

Kerry: Let me ask, did you ever see on August 20, 2004, a St. Louis Dispatch editorial, wrote the following: "The smear campaign was funded and orchestrated by a coterie of Texans with strong ties to the Bush family and the president's political director, Karl Rove. The president should disown the ads and tell his friends that he wants them to stop. Mr. Bush can't wash his hands of the Swift Boat Veterans' smear because of his close personal connections with the principals. The Swift Boats Veterans on Mr. Kerry's boat including the man he pulled from the river support Mr. Kerry's version of events. So do the records documenting the medals Mr. Kerry received. The attack ads, by contrast are riddled with inconsistencies, for example…"

And it goes on.

That was in your own newspaper, in your hometown. But a month later, you nevertheless contributed to that very group that is smearing and spreading lies.

Fox: Yes, sir. All of the 527s were smearing lies. And that…

.....

Kerry: Do you think this should matter to everyone here, as a Senator?

Fox: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, going back to the time when I said I was on record and was interviewed a number of times about campaign finance reform and about less money going in, I said one of the big reasons was not just the nastiness and so forth associated with it, but the abuse the candidates had to take to run for public office, I think it's disgraceful, I think it's terrible.

But that's the world we live in. It's what it's come to. It's unfortunate, I don’t know of a campaign, a political campaign or a 527 that's ever had anything but that as part of it. And I think it's terrible -- I do. I wish there's some way it could be changed and I think the best way to change it is to restrict the amount of money that can go into campaigns and to restrict the amount of money that can go into 527s and regulate both of them even more.

Kerry: We've been trying to do that for the 22 years I've been here and one of the most effective ways to do it would be for people like yourself and others who write the checks to know what they're giving to -- and to care about it.


There's more, mostly Mr. Fox insisting that he didn't know WHY someone wanted $50K, or what they were going to do with it, or even who they were - when he's asked for money he just gives it.

Careful whom you smear. You might end up asking him for a job someday.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#65 Apr 09 2007 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
borntolandhard wrote:
Unique qualifications? None that I know of. Qualifications? None that i know of. This is why I asked. I do not know much about Fox other than his contributions to 527 groups.
Well, there ya go. You don't go to a job interview saying "Unless you can find a big reason not to, you have to hire me!" -- you need to give them a good reason to hire ya.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#66 Apr 09 2007 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
To be fair, there really aren't any qualifications for a diplomatic post, other than "look good in a suit, pay lip service to the party line, and spy more for us than you do for anyone else."
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#67 Apr 09 2007 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:

Ms Pelosi and her cronies have done nothing but create division since they took power in Congress (ok. The House in this specific case).


When you're this out of touch with reality, discussion is pointless.
#68 Apr 09 2007 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Samira wrote:
To be fair, there really aren't any qualifications for a diplomatic post, other than "look good in a suit, pay lip service to the party line, and spy more for us than you do for anyone else."
You'll change your tune the first time we have a diplomatic crisis in Belgium.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#69 Apr 09 2007 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
****
9,997 posts
There's a good waffle joke in there somewhere.
#70 Apr 09 2007 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
No, it delegates house members as having control over funding. You know, like it says in the Constitution?


Perhaps you are unable to read? They are giving funding to Bush as long as HE PULLS TROOPS OUT. The President is the Commander-in-chief and has control over the military. Congress nor Senate have such control. In their funding bill they are TELLING the commander-in-chhief what he is to do with the military.


Or did you not understand the multiple lines in the funding bill that said... you are bringing the number of troops down to these levels by September 30th 2008.

Yes congress controls funding, but they do not control what they are demanding in their funding bill. They are using the bill to basically coerce the President into doing their wishes in regards to military occupation.

Christ Smash, and usually you have something good to retaliate with.

Let me give it to you slower, since perhaps you just woke up and are unable to comprehend...

Here is the money for the troops Mr. President... oh and by the way... in order to get this money you are taking the number of active personnel down to this number.

Less you forget... if the bill was to be signed into law.. you cannot only perform a partial of said guidelines outlined in the bill. He cannot take the money for the troops and leave out the 5 or 6 pages or so that TELL HIM how many troops he can have active.

Edited, Apr 9th 2007 3:23pm by borntolandhard
#71 Apr 09 2007 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
Quote:
Perhaps you are unable to read? They are giving funding to Bush as long as HE PULLS TROOPS OUT. The President is the Commander-in-chief and has control over the military. Congress nor Senate have such control. In their funding bill they are TELLING the commander-in-chhief what he is to do with the military.


Yes, Lincoln had a few headaches with this.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#72 Apr 09 2007 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
borntolandhard wrote:
Perhaps you are unable to read? They are giving funding to Bush as long as HE PULLS TROOPS OUT. The President is the Commander-in-chief and has control over the military. Congress nor Senate have such control. In their funding bill they are TELLING the commander-in-chhief what he is to do with the military.
The President has control over the physical forces of the military. Congress has control over the funding the military uses and can provide or withhold it as they wish. If Bush would like to hold a bake sale or something for the funding rather than going through Congress, he won't have to worry about Congress adding conditions to their bills.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#73 Apr 09 2007 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
**
301 posts
Jophiel wrote:
The President has control over the physical forces of the military. Congress has control over the funding the military uses and can provide or withhold it as they wish. If Bush would like to hold a bake sale or something for the funding rather than going through Congress, he won't have to worry about Congress adding conditions to their bills.


Nobody is disputing that. Congress pays. It's crystal clear.

However, Congress is using their power to fund to coerce the president into controlling the armed forces in a way the democratic controlled congress wishes.

They are not saying... Mr. President, here is the money.. they are saying..

Mr. President, here is the money you need, but we're telling you what you are going to do with these troops.

Its irrefutable. It's clearly outlined in the bill. They will provide funding, so long as the President does what they say in regards to troop levels. You want money? You are bringing the naval force down to ### active personnel.

Where do members of Congress get the notion they can control the armed forces in such a manner? Their control over the armed forces has to do with making sure there is such a thing, funding them and creating rules/guidelines for them to abide by (ie... don't kill your ssgt when he calls you a *****).

If appointing someone during recess is sleazy, do you agree that coercing the President into doing what YOU want with the troops is even more "sleazy"?

I'm not talking sending petitions asking for troops to get sent home, or holding demonstrations, or yelling through loudspeakers at the man; i am talking full blown coercion, which Congress is doing.


Yes, they can provide and withhold as they wish, but they cannot provide or withhold because they themselves want power over the armed forces. The majority of Democrats in Congress want these men and women home now, but since they do not have the power to do so, they will withhold or provide funding if the President doesn't/does what they so choose with the armed forces.

Edited, Apr 9th 2007 3:53pm by borntolandhard
#74 Apr 09 2007 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
That's the way it works. It's the way it's worked for years and years. See my Lincoln statement.

Congress has *always* had the right to withhold money if they don't like the way a war/police action/kegger is going.
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#75 Apr 09 2007 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
borntolandhard wrote:
If appointing someone during recess is sleazy, do you agree that coercing the President into doing what YOU want with the troops is even more "sleazy"?
Nope. Bush can veto the bill if he so chooses. He may not like to, but it's an option he has open to him. The Senate has no recourse against the recess appointment.


Technically, Reid or someone was saying he was going to consult some folks about it but I would be very, very surprised to see it go anywhere.

Edited, Apr 9th 2007 1:10pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#76 Apr 09 2007 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
Drama Nerdvana
******
20,674 posts
Samira wrote:
That's the way it works. It's the way it's worked for years and years. See my Lincoln statement.

Congress has *always* had the right to withhold money if they don't like the way a war/police action/kegger is going.



Ding Ding Ding.

Article 1 Section 8 gives Congress more power than just signing a blank cheque when it comes to war spending and military funding.

Which seems to be the problem Born seems to be having trouble grasping. They are not trying to issue orders in a military situation that would somehow overrule Bush thereby breaking with Art 2 Sect 2. They are making a civilian decision as a gov't to determine how funding and troops are used as clearly defined in the Constitution. There is a difference between putting limits, boundaries or goals to be met on spending and actually breaking 2.2. Not all that hard to see.

/shrug
____________________________
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 240 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (240)