Democrats still have no plan (other than talk) to deal...Follow

Oh! the irony.........

SNAKES ON A PLANE!!!


I want these MOTHERFUCKING snakes off of this MOTHERFUCKING plane and back in the MOTHERFUCKING grass!

I do want to know, so I know what part of the lawn to stay away from, not so I know where to drop the bombs.

And at this point, the idea of victory looks pretty lol.

This is just my possibly ignorant perception of the situation:

We want to give them democracy, and to be our allies.
The majority don't like us, so if we give them a real democracy, they still aren't our allies. Alternatively, we can try to put someone in power who will be our ally, but then it won't be a real democracy, and they'll probably be assassinated or overthrown.

Given the above, time to get the hell out of Dodge. You can't squeeze water from a stone.

You somehow think that it's wise to fight a battle you can't win? If I thought we could win, I would support staying, but so far no one has convinced me that we can.

Im still waiting for someone like yourself to define 'victory'. (Without resorting to the vacuous rhetoric favoured by El Presidente).

Empty slogans such as 'staying the course' and 'turning point' do not constitute a plan for 'victory'.

And while I'm wasting time talking to a fucking dropkick like yourself.....



How come you dont support provision of healthcare for your own citizens, yet you support the spending of half a trillion dollars ( and the lives of thousands of your soldiers, trying to install 'democracy' to a people who obviously hate your fucking guts?

Just wondering.....

I'll try my hand at this, mostly because I'm tired of the media jumping on the bandwagon of hate Bush, and leave Iraq, than focusing on the facts.

Ask almost any soldier, sailor, Marine, or airman, that's been to Iraq if they think we're winning, and they'll tell you "yes", if not in words, by the fact that the retention rates are higher now than ever, and many of those members of the military are requesting multiple tours of duty, after they've come home for a break.

Most of those in Iraq are certain of victory, because they deal with the citizens on the ground on a daily basis. They're the ones getting welcomed into homes, and offered thanks from the now free people of Iraq, not the media.

I don't want to make it seem all rosy and crap over there, because it's not. For every 100 happy Iraqis, there are 5 that are pissed, and those 5 are dangerous. Those 5 are throwbacks, that want religious law in place of a common law, that's fairer to more people. I for one don't think that women should be forced to wear robes that cover their body, save their eyes, but then it's not up to me, it's up to the free people of Iraq, not us. I think we should let their leadership govern the country, and focus on rebuilding efforts. Focus on keeping up our end of the "bargan", rather than forcing this country to work. I will readily admit that victory, by the average person's definition, is far easier to achieve here, that W.'s idea. The real way to achieve victory is by dividing Iraq up into the seperate nations/nation states it was before Britan screwed it all up. Allowing for a seperate government in each. Let the people that live there decide how they wish to be governed, and let it be, rather than force freedom on them. Had this been done to begin with, we wouldn't be having this topic of discussion, rather, we'd be talking about Cheney/Powell in '08 (:lol:).

Where I will agree with you is here: There is NO CLEAR PLAN to actually win this "war". Neither party has any idea of what it takes to win the nationalist Muslims over. They have no idea how to re-enforce to the people of Iraq that all we want to do is help them fix their country, and get the hell out, with hopes of some oil discounts in the future, and get back to Taliban hunting in Afghanistan, and watching American Idol (God I hate that show). Iraq has been a cluster bomb of stupid plans, and minimum effort from our leadership, but it's not a lost cause. Let's not forget, though, that we did find WMDs (biological), and one of the most dangerous people on the planet is gone. Now, if only we can get their government to work, we could move on to more pressing issues, like rising tax burdens, and getting rid of NAFTA and TAFTA.

Back to the point: Can we win in Iraq? Yes. Is it likely that we will? At this rate, no.

Ask almost any soldier, sailor, Marine, or airman, that's been to Iraq if they think we're winning, and they'll tell you "yes",

I know about 20. To a man they've all said "no".


if not in words, by the fact that the retention rates are higher now than ever,

This is just absurdly false. Here's a hint, *wishing* something were true doesn't make it so.

Sorry, Charlie :(


and many of those members of the military are requesting multiple tours of duty, after they've come home for a break.


Many? What does that mean, more than three?



Most of those in Iraq are certain of victory, because they deal with the citizens on the ground on a daily basis. They're the ones getting welcomed into homes, and offered thanks from the now free people of Iraq, not the media.


Most of those in Iraq don't want to be in Iraq. Most Iraqis don't want to be in Iraq. Most of those left in Iraq simply didn't have the resources to leave Iraq or they would have.


I don't want to make it seem all rosy and crap over there, because it's not. For every 100 happy Iraqis, there are 5 that are pissed, and those 5 are dangerous. Those 5 are throwbacks, that want religious law in place of a common law, that's fairer to more people. I for one don't think that women should be forced to wear robes that cover their body, save their eyes, but then it's not up to me, it's up to the free people of Iraq, not us. I think we should let their leadership govern the country, and focus on rebuilding efforts. Focus on keeping up our end of the "bargan", rather than forcing this country to work. I will readily admit that victory, by the average person's definition, is far easier to achieve here, that W.'s idea. The real way to achieve victory is by dividing Iraq up into the seperate nations/nation states it was before Britan screwed it all up.


It must be an interesting life to be this abjectly delusional about something. How do you avoid regaining touch with reality, exactly? Do you just cover your eyes when you see news reports from Iraq, or is more along the lines of a conspiracy of the media to report how great things are most days?

Diving Iraq up into smaller states accomplishes nothing but very likely having Iran and Turkey get involved militarily. Oh boy!


Allowing for a seperate government in each. Let the people that live there decide how they wish to be governed, and let it be, rather than force freedom on them. Had this been done to begin with, we wouldn't be having this topic of discussion, rather, we'd be talking about Cheney/Powell in '08 (:lol:).


Hahaha, to being with. Ignorance is so cute.


Where I will agree with you is here: There is NO CLEAR PLAN to actually win this "war". Neither party has any idea of what it takes to win the nationalist Muslims over.

Right neither party. It's no one's fault, we're all in this together, let's not point fingers at the people directly responsible or anything.

You're adorable.


They have no idea how to re-enforce to the people of Iraq that all we want to do is help them fix their country, and get the hell out, with hopes of some oil discounts in the future, and get back to Taliban hunting in Afghanistan, and watching American Idol (God I hate that show). Iraq has been a cluster bomb of stupid plans, and minimum effort from our leadership, but it's not a lost cause.


It's been a lost cause for years now. We'll leave, they'll fight, and it'll end up being a Muslim theocracy, or possibly, a puppet state for Iran. Yay!


Let's not forget, though, that we did find WMDs (biological), and one of the most dangerous people on the planet is gone.


No, we didn't, and he's in office for more than a year yet, even though he's an impotent lame duck.


Now, if only we can get their government to work, we could move on to more pressing issues, like rising tax burdens, and getting rid of NAFTA and TAFTA.

Back to the point: Can we win in Iraq? Yes. Is it likely that we will? At this rate, no.

You really are the cutest. I'm definitely buying you a little American flag waving teddy bear for Christmas that you can talk to about these 'ideas'. I'll have a special voice recognition chip and speaker implanted in him so that when he hears you say things like this post aloud he'll say 'right on brother!" and start singing the National Anthem.



Edited, Apr 10th 2007 5:51pm by Smasharoo

link



You mean these ones? Yep! The fundamentalists think you guys rock!



Cite?

How about the recent one that says that 51% of Iraqis think its ok to attack coalition troops?




You're right its not up to you.

But, its only since the invasion that some of the more extreme demands of sharia/islamic law have been enforced in Iraq. because you've never been to Iraq, you wouldn't be aware that under Sadaam s rule, that sort of behaviour was outlawed.

So, strike out your concern for womens rights as an excuse for the continued occupation, mmmkay?



But that would mean allowing the (Iranian backed) shiite majority to be in charge....Is that what you're supporting? I'm confused now. And besides, before the invasion that you are still supporting, their leadership was governing the country.

Whats changed in your world that its not ok for Sadaam to have ruled, but it is ok for a fundamentalist islamist party to rule?






Oh...so its all Britains fault that Bush needed to invade! Right. Got ya...


Your grasp of the regions politics is obviously a bit lacking. Turkey and Iran will never allow an autonomous kurdish state.
The oil is in the North and the South. The Sunnis are in the middle. Can anyone else see the problem here?



A contradiction in terms surely....



You could stop sending more troops and building gigantic (permanent) military bases.
And whats with that Embassy thats about the only thing that is being constructed there?
Doesn't exactly shout that you will be leaving soon. Its the military equivilant of taking off your shoes and coat and putting your feet up on the table.



You forgot 'criminal intent'.


Umm. It is as far as the US is concerned. Your president just cant admit it to himself yet. not publicly anyway.



No. You didn't.

[quote]The comprehensive 15-month search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has concluded that the only chemical or biological agents that Saddam Hussein's regime was working on before last year's invasion were small quantities of poisons, most likely for use in assassinations. [/quote] Link

And No. He wasn't. He was a danger to his own people for sure. But to the US? Thats laughable.

[quote]Back to the point: Can we win in Iraq? Yes. [/quote]

Would it be too much to ask if you wouldn't mind defining 'win' and 'victory' for me again please?

the definitions I'm used to are..
1. Defeat of an enemy or opponent.
2. Success in a struggle against difficulties or an obstacle.
3. The state of having triumphed.

1. Not even close.
2. getting more unlikely by the day.
3. unless of course you are using a different definition of 'triumph'.

You appear to be using a different one.

Oh for the love of Bob.

Will you for fucks sake tell me in simple terms, what the Fucking hell you mean by 'finish the job'.

Is it so fucking hard?

What is the 'job'?
What is 'victory'?

What the **** are you talking about?

If you cant define an end point to this 'job', then your opinions about it are fucking pointless.





And no, I dont think your ignorance is 'cute'.

Winning in Iraq in my mind is this:

Being able to leave the country in better condition than we found it. I am not a huge supporter of King Bush. (Understatement alert)I think he's an ok guy, but not a great president. I think we CAN win, however unlikely (which I did say also, or did your pea sized brain not catch that?).

Don't confuse with Varus. I do understand what's going on in Iraq, having been there twice, as well as Afghanistan. I know what the region's issues are, and to be honest, I don't really give a damn what the motivation for going in was, Congress never delared war, thus this war is unConstitutional. We shouldn't have been there, but now that we are, we need to make sure that the place isn't just going to collapse when we leave.

Since you want to mention permanant bases, I'll tell you right off that I don't agree with having them, in ANY country other than our own. I don't think we should have a base in the UK, Germany, Italy, Korea, or anywhere else. The rest of the world wants to fUck itself into Hell, let it. I'm not sure I could care any less about most of the EU. I don't want to see the Nurburgring damaged though, at least not until I've driven on it, everything else, I'm only kinda iffy on caring about it.

I'm not too worried about Iran to be honest. Once we leave, they'll go back to ******** about Israel, and reassume the status quo. The current Hitler wannabe will be out of office soon, and Iran will go back to being known as the country next to Iraq again.

Also, I didn't state that I felt Saddam was a danger to the US, hell I don't really care. My statement was that he was one of the more dangerous people on the planet, and he was. Sadir is also in the minority of Iraqis that I spoke of. Don't let polls fool you, I can create a poll that would show that the majority of Americans think King Bush is doing a fine job. It'd be easy. I just have to find the half of the country that voted for him twice. You know, those people that are skipped by the regular pollsters.

The US didn't invade because of the Britts. My point was this: Before the UK created Iraq, there were three countries, not one.

Let me ask this of all the naysayers and those that refuse to come up with a plan to win against extremist Islam:

Should the forces in Iraq leave tomorrow, do you think that relations will be fixed? Do you think that everything will be just ducky? What do you honestly think will happen? Don't you think that the leadership of the terrorist organizations will be emboldened to continue attacks on the rest of the world? What is your idea to defeat radical Islamists, hell bent on Jihad?

Well, according to the vast majority of people that I've actually spoken to (not imaginary people on the interweb), an OVERWHELMING majority of them feel that we are able to win in Iraq, and want to return, just to finish the job.

You must know a lot of drooling simpletons, I guess. Sadly, as always, your anecdotal experience isn't relevant at all.

Sorry, Bubba :(