...Alcoholism and Drug Addiction diseases? They're not diseases; people choose to take up drugs and alcohol and they can choose to stop. Sure, it's difficult, but certainly not impossible, people quit them all the time. If you can't quit drugs and alcohol, you don't have a disease, you just have a weak will.
People don't choose to get cancer, and a strong will by itself won't stop it, like with alcoholism and drug addiction, so to label them as the same thing is baffling.
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You're no longer allowed to post after watching South Park reruns.
trickybeck wrote:
You're no longer allowed to post
#4REDACTED,
Posted: Apr 02 2007 at 5:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you read the Family Guy vs. South Park thread, you'll know I can't stand South Park :P
Right now, I'm willing you to get cancer.
Quote:
...Alcoholism and Drug Addiction diseases? They're not diseases; people choose to take up drugs and alcohol and they can choose to stop. Sure, it's difficult, but certainly not impossible, people quit them all the time. If you can't quit drugs and alcohol, you don't have a disease, you just have a weak will.
The choice element is kind of irrelevant. The reason addictions are considered diseases is the physical dependency that goes along with them. Alcoholism is more of a mental disease.
Objectively speaking, choice does not enter into science, medicine, what have you. The causes of most mental disorders are considered to be rooted in genetics and environment, much like anything else, and not attributed to choice.
So what differentiates between an inability to stop drinking alcohol and the inability to not be an *******? I guess the ability to objectively classify, and the availability of treatment methods. It's more born out of a need to address it as a prevalent social/mental disorder. If we don't identify it as a disease, but just something that people choose to do, then we accept no ability to change the state of it, and that really doesn't solve anything.
And technically, they should not be considered diseases, but disorders.
I agree with the premise philosophically, I guess, even though I think the terminology is kind of political/bogus.
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
...Alcoholism and Drug Addiction diseases? They're not diseases; people choose to take up drugs and alcohol and they can choose to stop. Sure, it's difficult, but certainly not impossible, people quit them all the time. If you can't quit drugs and alcohol, you don't have a disease, you just have a weak will.
The choice element is kind of irrelevant. The reason addictions are considered diseases is the physical dependency that goes along with them. Alcoholism is more of a mental disease.
Objectively speaking, choice does not enter into science, medicine, what have you. The causes of most mental disorders are considered to be rooted in genetics and environment, much like anything else, and not attributed to choice.
So what differentiates between an inability to stop drinking alcohol and the inability to not be an @#%^? I guess the ability to objectively classify, and the availability of treatment methods. It's more born out of a need to address it as a prevalent social/mental disorder. If we don't identify it as a disease, but just something that people choose to do, then we accept no ability to change the state of it, and that really doesn't solve anything.
And technically, they should not be considered diseases, but disorders.
I agree with the premise philosophically, I guess, even though I think the terminology is kind of political/bogus.
Actually by labeling them as disorders/disabilities/diseases we allow these weak-willed people to mooch off us hardworking taxpayers by way of the ADA.
Alcoholism and Drug Addiction obviously are influenced by genetics and the environment, but in the end, if you choose to do them, it's a choice. You can either choose to be a weak-willed individual, or you can choose to overcome your addiction.
Millions of people have quit smoking/drinking/drugging, so obviously it's possible, they just choose not to.
It's simple; addicts conciously continue to use their drug. The physical dependency makes it difficult, but not impossible. I'm not trying to belittle the difficulty of quitting a drug like, say, heroin, but to call it a disease is stupid because a person can be freed of the "disease" at any time they choose.
Look, dipShit, addiction exists even when it's not being practiced. So say, I haven't had a drink in two or three days, this does not mean I'm no longer an alcoholic. Do you gather what I'm gettin' at? Addiction has nothing to do with actively abusing or using anything.
I'll let qualified people inform me about what is or isn't a Disease and will continue to ignore DamienKain. That is all.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
#11REDACTED,
Posted: Apr 02 2007 at 6:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lol dipshit? Someone has an opinion that's different from yours is a dipshit? Wow, grow up. Guess I struck a nerve or something with you; are you an alcoholic?
Quote:
Alcoholism and Drug Addiction obviously are influenced by genetics and the environment, but in the end, if you choose to do them, it's a choice. You can either choose to be a weak-willed individual, or you can choose to overcome your addiction.
That's rooted in a philosophical disagreement that I'm not sure I want to get into again.
There is little scientific basis for the phenomenon you refer to as "choice". Do you really choose to do something? I would argue that you do not.
As for the tax-mooching, I admittedly don't know much about that; how much money is being spent, or what the money is being spent on. If it is effective towards remediation/treatment, then it's probably worth it.
But I mean, you can apply this kind of thinking to just about any government expenditure. It's ironic because the same behaviorism you're trying to apply to your argument is philosophically at odds with your perception of choice.
What I mean is, the reason why they classify it that way is because they choose to do it, hm?
DaimenKain wrote:
lol dipshit? Someone has an opinion that's different from yours is a dipshit? Wow, grow up. Guess I struck a nerve or something with you; are you an alcoholic?
Well, when your opinion is indicative of a total lack of understanding of the issue then yes, it makes you a fUcking dipShit.
Am I an alcoholic? That's what they tell me, and I'm inclined to agree, judging by my behaviour and the fact that even knowing the consequences of my consumption I continue to do so. By all indications, I should cease drinking right now and forever, and I've gone some good stretches at a time on the wagon, six months here and there, sometimes a year, but I always have this nagging doubt. Even when I've been sober for these long periods, I always know deep down inside that I'll relapse. Maybe someday I'll make the commitment and stick to a program, surround myself with like-minded folks who are bound together by their desire to live a good, clean, sober life, but today ain't that day. Tomorrow ain't it, either. Regardless, even if and when that day comes, I'll still be an alcoholic till the day I die.
C'mon though, quit playing, bitCh. You know all about addiction. It's the same imbalance in your brain that keeps encouraging you to start debates like this, knowing that in the end you'll be left with your *** gaping. For me, it's alcohol, sex, drugs, rock and roll and baseball, for you, well, it's verbal sodomy, apparently. You're a case-study in attention-whoring, ask Bhodi and he might be able to turn you on to a good support group.
Quote:
And omegavegeta you keep on being a sheep; defintely wouldn't want you thinking for yourself or anything
I very much enjoy my not thinking like you, if it makes you feel any better.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
Quote:
Maybe someday I'll make the commitment and stick to a program, surround myself with like-minded folks who are bound together by their desire to live a good, clean, sober life
Grandfather Barkingturtle wrote:
DaimenKain wrote:
lol dipshit? Someone has an opinion that's different from yours is a dipshit? Wow, grow up. Guess I struck a nerve or something with you; are you an alcoholic?
Well, when your opinion is indicative of a total lack of understanding of the issue then yes, it makes you a fUcking dipShit.
Am I an alcoholic? That's what they tell me, and I'm inclined to agree, judging by my behaviour and the fact that even knowing the consequences of my consumption I continue to do so. By all indications, I should cease drinking right now and forever, and I've gone some good stretches at a time on the wagon, six months here and there, sometimes a year, but I always have this nagging doubt. Even when I've been sober for these long periods, I always know deep down inside that I'll relapse. Maybe someday I'll make the commitment and stick to a program, surround myself with like-minded folks who are bound together by their desire to live a good, clean, sober life, but today ain't that day. Tomorrow ain't it, either. Regardless, even if and when that day comes, I'll still be an alcoholic till the day I die.
C'mon though, quit playing, bitCh. You know all about addiction. It's the same imbalance in your brain that keeps encouraging you to start debates like this, knowing that in the end you'll be left with your *** gaping. For me, it's alcohol, sex, drugs, rock and roll and baseball, for you, well, it's verbal sodomy, apparently. You're a case-study in attention-whoring, ask Bhodi and he might be able to turn you on to a good support group.
I'm sorry all I heard was "waaahhh I can't control my drinking because I'm too weak to control a beverage, and I actually think I'm cool because of it" could you repeat that?
You try to apply the obligations of the 'sick role' to a condition you argue is not a disease.
Congratulations, your line of reasoning was outdated in the mid 20th century, at least you are not blaming their condition on jaundice or some calvinistic predestination towards drink.
Congratulations, your line of reasoning was outdated in the mid 20th century, at least you are not blaming their condition on jaundice or some calvinistic predestination towards drink.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
DaimenKain wrote:
I'm sorry all I heard was "waaahhh I can't control my drinking because I'm too weak to control a beverage, and I actually think I'm cool because of it" could you repeat that?
Good to hear you're not still claiming to be anything other than a dipShit, at least. You're a really a very poor and predictable troll, but I'll respond because you guessed right: I do think I'm pretty fUcking cool.
Look, I'm presently content with being an alcoholic. It doesn't mean I'm a drunk. It does, however, add some considerable spice to my life, to say the least. For instance, I've had guiltless, unattached, wild monkey-sex with more women than I can count on my fingers and toes largely due to time spent in the bar. I've survived car wrecks that would have killed sober men. I've been stabbed. I've walked miles in my boxer-shorts, because her boyfriend came home and I had to bail out her window. I've stolen an ambulance. I've been shot at. I saw a bum get his eye poked out by a thumb, once. I've thrown up in the back of a police car. On purpose. I've been mugged, pistol-whipped and stun-gunned. I've banged indentical twins(Okay, so I wasn't drunk for this one). I've been maced. This list goes on and on...
So yeah, it depends on your definition of "cool", but to me, I'm it. It's not all bad being an alcoholic, once you accept it and own it, as a matter of fact, fUck being anything else.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 10:45pm by Barkingturtle
There is little scientific basis for the phenomenon you refer to as "choice". Do you really choose to do something? I would argue that you do not.
It's also completely irrelevant to this or any other argument.
Choice, illusion of choice, doesn't matter either way.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Grandfather Barkingturtle wrote:
I've walked miles in my boxer-shorts, because her boyfriend came home and I had to bail out her window.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 10:45pm by Barkingturtle
She was so important to you that you had to put her pic in your avatar?
DaimenKain wrote:
Grandfather Barkingturtle wrote:
I've walked miles in my boxer-shorts, because her boyfriend came home and I had to bail out her window.
She was so important to you that you had to put her pic in your avatar?
I believe that really is the best you've got. It must be unbearable to be so slow in the head that even someone with my weak, alcohol-riddled brain can reduce you to slinging such harmless innuendo.
Have we met, fUckslap? I'm Barkingturtle, and I suggest on a regular basis that I stick my ******* in the sheep I own. Now if you would, kiddo, tell that ***** you call a mother to fetch me another brew when she's done blowing the bartender to cover my tab.
Any one who opened this thread and replied wanted to start an argument i blame Geoge bush! am i doing it right?
Magnavoxroan wrote:
Any one who opened this thread and replied wanted to start an argument i blame Geoge bush! am i doing it right?
He's like gbaji with cliffsnotes
DaimenKain wrote:
Actually by labeling them as disorders/disabilities/diseases we allow these weak-willed people to mooch off us hardworking taxpayers by way of the ADA.
Whose definition are you using of alcoholism as a disease? The CDC, for example, would have a different means of determining what qualifies than the ADA.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Grandfather Barkingturtle wrote:
DaimenKain wrote:
I'm sorry all I heard was "waaahhh I can't control my drinking because I'm too weak to control a beverage, and I actually think I'm cool because of it" could you repeat that?
Good to hear you're not still claiming to be anything other than a dipShit, at least. You're a really a very poor and predictable troll, but I'll respond because you guessed right: I do think I'm pretty fUcking cool.
Look, I'm presently content with being an alcoholic. It doesn't mean I'm a drunk. It does, however, add some considerable spice to my life, to say the least. For instance, I've had guiltless, unattached, wild monkey-sex with more women than I can count on my fingers and toes largely due to time spent in the bar. I've survived car wrecks that would have killed sober men. I've been stabbed. I've walked miles in my boxer-shorts, because her boyfriend came home and I had to bail out her window. I've stolen an ambulance. I've been shot at. I saw a bum get his eye poked out by a thumb, once. I've thrown up in the back of a police car. On purpose. I've been mugged, pistol-whipped and stun-gunned. I've banged indentical twins(Okay, so I wasn't drunk for this one). I've been maced. This list goes on and on...
So yeah, it depends on your definition of "cool", but to me, I'm it. It's not all bad being an alcoholic, once you accept it and own it, as a matter of fact, fUck being anything else.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 10:45pm by Barkingturtle
Ok, seriously. If you don't come to Chicago we are going to have some words. I'm soooo going out drinking with you. I've long ago come to the conclusion that the best stories always start out with "So it was around noon and I was ******* hammered...."
Jacobsdeception the Sly wrote:
Ok, seriously. If you don't come to Chicago we are going to have some words. I'm soooo going out drinking with you. I've long ago come to the conclusion that the best stories always start out with "So it was around noon and I was @#%^ing hammered...."
I'll be there, but if I can't find someone to share a room with at that fancy hotel, I may crash elsewhere. Like in the drunk-tank, where I can really absorb some of Chicago's flavor.
What's funny is, when budgeting for this trip, I want my booze expenditure to far outway what I spend on a room. This is a good example of my disease.
Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 10:28am by Barkingturtle
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