Republicans still courting Hispanic voteFollow

Did he mean "American"?

What next?

* Pledge of allegiance to Her Majesty?
* Tea at 4pm on the dot?
* All soldiers to have at least one crimson uniform?

OK. Sounds good to me.


Carry on

Lol. And in typically liberal "OMG! Republicans are Evil!!!" fashion, the point is missed.

He didn't say that people who speak spanish are all going to live in the ghetto. He said that people who live in the US and can't speak English are going to end up living in the ghetto.

Um. And he's right. He's pointing out that bending over backwards to make it easier for immigrants to get by using their native language may appear to be "good for immigrants" and respect their cultures and all that other stuff that sounds really good on a bumper sticker, but the ultimate result is that doing so makes it easier for groups of immigrants to stay clumped in their own neighborhoods, not learn to communicate with and take part in the rest of the nation, and ultimately hurts those immigrants and their descendants far more in the long run...


I have never met an Hispanic living in the US who regretted learning English. Have you? Why not focus all those dollars we spend today on bilingual education on teaching English instead? Wouldn't that make a whole lot more sense?

You realize that bilingual refers to two languages, right? One is Spanish -- guess what the other one is.

And he did not say "You'll end up living in a ghetto"; he expressly referred to Spanish as "the language of living in a ghetto" (as opposed to "the language of prosperity", i.e. English).

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 4:46pm by Jophiel

You do know that "bilingual education" in our public school system does not mean that people are taught in two languages, right? It means that there are courses in the school that are taught in a language other then English.

Don't confuse the terms used for what they actually mean in this context Joph. It would be just peachy if bilingual education actually meant that that the teacher used both languages interchangably in the coursework. But that's not what it means. Not even close. What is labeled "bilingual education" here in California is really classes taught in Spanish so that students who don't speak English will do better in class. And that may seem like it's harmless except that it results in exacty what Newt was talking about. They never bother to learn English, so the public school system, which was supposed to prepare them sufficiently for adult lives and the opportunity present to everyone else in the country fails those students miserably.

Those kids would be *vastly* better off struggling for a couple years in school while learning English then being able to pass their classes because of the "bilingual education" system. Because the success rate between kids who learn English prior to becoming adults and those who don't is *huge*. Folks like Smash will point to relatively small statistical differences between success levels based on historical ethnic disadvantages and use that to argue for vast and intrusive social programs.

The difference in success rates for kids who learn English in school versus those that don't makes the whole "blacks need afirmative action to make up for slavery" argument look ludicrous. Yet, oddly, the same "side" seems perfectly ok with endorsing an education system that effectively traps these kids into a "life in the ghetto".

Makes you wonder if the Liberal movements care more about the people, or making sure that there's a big enough problem so they can keep getting support? Hmmm...




Yes. And in the context of getting a job and succeeding in life, he's exactly right. For an immigrant, learning English is the difference between living in the ghetto and not living in the ghetto. Heh. And depending on the definition of ghetto you are using, he's not only right in context, but in literal meaning as well. A ghetto is an area where people tend to clump based on ethnicity. Language is a huge part of that. If you speak Spanish and can't speak English, you're only going to manage if you live in a neighborhood full of people who speak Spanish. By definition, that is a "ghetto".


He's saying the truth. No matter how "inconvenient" it may be for some to hear...

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 6:09pm by gbaji

IIRC, Flea once posted that she struggled for a couple years in school (with English) when she moved to the US.

I'd love to hear her chime in on this. Does she think that she would have been better served by the school system if she'd been taught in Spanish and been spared having to struggle while learning English? Is she sure she would have learned English if she hadn't been forced to? How well?

Again. I think the confusion point on this is semantic. We hear "bilingual education" and think that it's teaching in two languages. It's not though. While I suppose in some charter schools and expensive private schools, there may be true bilingual programs, when it's used in the public school context, it simply means that a class is taught in a second language instead of English and it's done so specifically so that students can perform better at school even if they speak little or no English.

Some of these programs are coupled with programs designed to teach English to those students. However, they are not typically directly tied together in terms of budget. And what often happens is that the so called "bilingual classes" are mandated but the program to teach those kids English gets cut due to buget shortages. Remember. At least here in California the schools recieve funding based on performance and attendance. So a program that lets kids take their courses in another language helps the school get more funding (pays for itself in the way the school district looks at it). A program that teaches kids English simply costs money.


The overwhelming result of bilingual education is that the rate of students graduating high shool who are unable to speak or read English increases. Can we agree that that's not a good thing? Can we agree that this isn't going to help the prospects of those students?

I don't see a problem with making English the official language of the USA. We shouldn't have to have voting ballots in Spanish. If you can't understand English, I don't want you voting on American issues, sorry.

I don't see a problem with making English the official language of the USA. We shouldn't have to have voting ballots in Spanish. If you can't understand English, I don't want you voting on American issues, sorry.

أتصور لا Ø£Øد يعطي يستغل ما ترون

So, what kind of list did I just become a part of for googling this?

Bilingual education involves teaching all subjects in school through two different languages - in the United States, instruction occurs in English and a minority language, such as Spanish or Chinese, with varying amounts of each language used in accordance with the program model. The following are several different types of bilingual education program models:

Transitional Bilingual Education. This involves education in a child's native language, typically for no more than three years, to ensure that students do not fall behind in content areas like math, science, and social studies while they are learning English. The goal is to help students transition to mainstream, English-only classrooms as quickly as possible, and the linguistic goal of such programs is English acquisition only. The overwhelming majority of bilingual programs in the U.S. are transitional.

Two-Way or Dual Language Bilingual Education. These programs are designed to help native and non-native English speakers become bilingual and biliterate. Ideally in such programs in a U.S. context, half of the students will be native speakers of English and half of the students will be native speakers of a minority language such as Spanish. Dual Language programs are less commonly permitted in US schools, although research indicates they are extremely effective in helping students learn English well and aiding the long-term performance of English learners in school (Center for Applied Linguistics, 2005; Thomas & Collier, 1997; Lindholm-Leary, 2000).

One of the most effective forms of Bilingual Education is a type of Dual Language program that has students study in two different ways: 1) A variety of academic subjects are taught in the students' second language, with specially trained bilingual teachers who can understand students when they ask questions in their native language, but always answer in the second language; and 2) Native language literacy classes improve students writing and higher-order language skills in their first language. Research has shown that many of the skills learned in the native language can be transferred easily to the second language later. In this type of program, the native language classes do not teach academic subjects. The second-language classes are content-based, rather than grammar-based, so students learn all of their academic subjects in the second language.

Late-Exit or Developmental Bilingual Education. Education is in the child's native language for an extended duration, accompanied by education in English. The goal is to develop bilingualism and biliteracy in both languages. This program is available to students whose native language is not English, and also less common than transitional programs.


Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 5:28am by Magnavoxroan

Her family uses Spanish as the primary language around the house. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to learn that they're using the language of a ghetto

And that was your first mistake.

The second was to write an incomprehensible post that had nothing to do with the topic in question.

The third will probably be to respond to this post.

If english was good enough for the founding fathers it should be good enough for some dirty **** - Newt

/golfclap

good troll

The 770 year Christian campaign to reclaim the Iberian pennisula from the Muslim Moors who conquered it from the Visigothic kings in c.700 AD; starting with Pelayo's mythicised battle at Covadonga in 722 and lasting until the capture of Granada in 1492?

Edited, Apr 3rd 2007 7:10am by Jophiel