Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Would you switch?Follow

#52 Apr 02 2007 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
**
719 posts
Quote:
And you have?


You haven't really given a single valid point that needed a rebuttle I wouldn't say I've needed to. You're the one trying to prove a point here and as soon as you take the time to support your point I'll take the time to support mine.

Quote:

Since when did you need to cite sources to be of the position that drug use is a bad thing, anyway?


Since that is the topic of article and several others? If you've ever done your own reliable research rather than just listening to what everyone tells you you might question the fact that moderate, moderate, not junkie level use causes no lasting harm on the body. Todays highschool health classes only focus on the junkies because they are the examples that everyone needs to be made aware of.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 10:05am by Lefian
#53 Apr 02 2007 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
*****
12,065 posts
Kachi wrote:

Perhaps less criticsm of my position and a little more emphasis on what makes yours so much better would be a more effective approach. This is not some casual conclusion I made. I have spent a great deal of objective deliberation over the issue and that's where my position is coming from. I'm not asking you to agree or even respect it.


For what it's worth, no one cares how much time you spent thinking about it, the general "rule" if we have one is that you don't make claims without citation and expect that anyone respond with anything other than GFY. Now if you really are only posting to yourself, that's fine, but the "effective" approach when you're posting here is to not assume that anyone respects your opinion.

Unless you're a regular poster that's been around for a while and people have decided you know what the hell you're talking about on certain subjects, of course. Like I go along with whatever Joph has to say about Catholics, Flea about Spanish and belly dancing, Totem about helicopters, Taco about martial arts, Gitslayer about strippers, BT about the physical implications of various sexual positions, Tare about Canadian style baby-making, DSD about geeky video making, Nobby about British health care, DF about Mustangs, Exo about cheese, Kao about most techical matters, Thumb about swinging, Bodhi about all things emo and Smash...well, I'm sure he knows something about something, but I'd ignore his opinions on politics and baseball were I you.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#54 Apr 02 2007 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
10,802 posts
Nexa wrote:
For what it's worth, no one cares how much time you spent thinking about it, the general "rule" if we have one is that you don't make claims without citation and expect that anyone respond with anything other than GFY. Now if you really are only posting to yourself, that's fine, but the "effective" approach when you're posting here is to not assume that anyone respects your opinion.

Unless you're a regular poster that's been around for a while and people have decided you know what the hell you're talking about on certain subjects, of course. Like I go along with whatever Joph has to say about Catholics, Flea about Spanish and belly dancing, Totem about helicopters, Taco about martial arts, Gitslayer about strippers, BT about the physical implications of various sexual positions, Tare about Canadian style baby-making, DSD about geeky video making, Nobby about British health care, DF about Mustangs, Exo about cheese, Kao about most techical matters, Thumb about swinging, Bodhi about all things emo and Smash...well, I'm sure he knows something about something, but I'd ignore his opinions on politics and baseball were I you.

Nexa


Smiley: thumbsup
#55 Apr 02 2007 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
Nexa wrote:
Unless you're a regular poster that's been around for a while and people have decided you know what the hell you're talking about on certain subjects, of course...BT about the physical implications of various sexual positions...

Nexa


After recent experimentation, I can tell you that continuing doing that disgusting, self-indulgent thing will not, as mother used to say, make you blind, but there is a high chance that your face will fall asleep and you'll strain a toe.
#56 Apr 02 2007 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,659 posts
I don't even get an honorable mention for binge drinking. Smiley: frown
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#57 Apr 02 2007 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
*****
12,065 posts
Demea wrote:
I don't even get an honorable mention for binge drinking. Smiley: frown


I'll need evidence in Chicago...right now all have to go on is your word.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#58 Apr 02 2007 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,659 posts
Nexa wrote:
Demea wrote:
I don't even get an honorable mention for binge drinking. Smiley: frown


I'll need evidence in Chicago...right now all have to go on is your word.

Nexa

You and me. At a bar. Drinking scotch.

Samira can come too.

We'll need an official witness when I drink you under the table.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 12:20pm by Demea
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#59 Apr 02 2007 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
*****
12,065 posts
I also forgot to metion:

Patrician for opinions regarding male undergarments, Kelvy, Debalic, Elne, and Yan Yan for one coherant opinion on the effects of Mary Jane, Dana for hairstyle guidelines, Katie for the texas opinion, Nads for suggestions regarding vodka and it's applications, and Samira for everything else.

Nexa

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 1:22pm by Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#60 Apr 02 2007 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
*****
12,065 posts
Demea wrote:
Nexa wrote:
Demea wrote:
I don't even get an honorable mention for binge drinking. Smiley: frown


I'll need evidence in Chicago...right now all have to go on is your word.

Nexa

You and me. At a bar. Drinking scotch.

Samira can come too.

We'll need an official witness when I drink you under the table.


I never claimed I had any tolerance, but if I were still your age, I have no doubt that I'd be competition. I'll have a couple shots, but can we make it tequila? I'd say off me, but boyfriend might object.

Nexa

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 1:24pm by Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#61 Apr 02 2007 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
*****
18,463 posts
I'd have more respect for Smash's opinion, but anyone with such a blatant accent can't possibly be smart.
#62 Apr 02 2007 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,659 posts
Atomicflea wrote:
I'd have more respect for Smash's opinion, but anyone with such a blatant accent can't possibly be smart.

Y tú también?
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#63 Apr 02 2007 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
Nexa wrote:
I also forgot to metion:

Patrician for opinions regarding male undergarments, Kelvy, Debalic, Elne, and Yan Yan for one coherant opinion on the effects of Mary Jane, Dana for hairstyle guidelines, Katie for the texas opinion, Nads for suggestions regarding vodka and it's applications, and Samira for everything else.

Nexa

Smiley: crymore
#64 Apr 02 2007 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
"Everything else", that's me all right.

<3 Nexa
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#65 Apr 02 2007 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
You're the one trying to prove a point here


Quote:
I'm not asking you to agree or even respect it.


See, that's where you're mistaken. I was just sharing my perspective. I have little interest in whether or not you subscribe to it. Let's get real here; or maybe I'm just jaded, but I can cite and source and reference all day and as long as there's a biased poster in here willing to remain skeptical of my sources, it won't mean a damn thing except a waste of my time.

Quote:
If you've ever done your own reliable research rather


So if I had interchanged the words "objective deliberation" with "reliable research" would that satisfy you? You can't have objective deliberation WITHOUT reliable research. Does that help?

Quote:
you might question the fact that moderate, moderate, not junkie level use causes no lasting harm on the body.


I have questioned it, and I have answered it, right after the
Quote:
"objective deliberation" with "reliable research"



@ Nexa, that's more or less where I'm coming from. It goes both ways though. I don't value the insights of posters based on how long they've been here because they're as new to me as I am to them, and frankly I don't care if I have anyone's approval, because like everyone else, I think I'm right until convinced otherwise. On this particular issue, I don't care if you don't agree with me. Tell my why I should think otherwise or ***** and moan about my position while I refuse to care about anything other than having a good time.
#66 Apr 02 2007 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
*****
18,463 posts
Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
I'd have more respect for Smash's opinion, but anyone with such a blatant accent can't possibly be smart.

Y tú también?
Ay, y ya viene este cojudo a joderme el chiste. ¡Ay!
#67 Apr 02 2007 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,659 posts
Atomicflea wrote:
Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
I'd have more respect for Smash's opinion, but anyone with such a blatant accent can't possibly be smart.

Y tú también?
Ay, y ya viene este cojudo a joderme el chiste. ¡Ay!

Just trying to keep you honest.
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#68 Apr 02 2007 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Nexa
*****
12,065 posts
Elderon wrote:
Nexa wrote:
I also forgot to metion:

Patrician for opinions regarding male undergarments, Kelvy, Debalic, Elne, and Yan Yan for one coherant opinion on the effects of Mary Jane, Dana for hairstyle guidelines, Katie for the texas opinion, Nads for suggestions regarding vodka and it's applications, and Samira for everything else.

Nexa

Smiley: crymore


While I don't take anything you say as "expert" opinion, I do trust that you'll turn nearly everyone of my posts into some sort of sexual innuendo. In that, you speak for all of us.

Nexa
____________________________
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#69 Apr 02 2007 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
*****
18,463 posts
Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
I'd have more respect for Smash's opinion, but anyone with such a blatant accent can't possibly be smart.

Y tú también?
Ay, y ya viene este cojudo a joderme el chiste. ¡Ay!

Just trying to keep you honest.
Y dale la mula al trigo...
#70 Apr 02 2007 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
**
719 posts
I'm not going to look up sources since I have to be in class in about 15 minutes. Hopefully Kachi unless you know it is wrong, as in you've seen concrete facts in the past that state otherwise, you'll check these for your self.

Alcohol damages the liver. As long as the liver is not badly damaged it can repair it self rather quickly. This is a fact. Therefore moderate alcohol use has not permanent damage to your body.

The only physical damage ever associated with marijuana smoking is the general harm traditionally associated with smoking anything. Again the definition of someone that smokes marijuana in moderation is not someone that is going to cause a great deal of damage to their lungs. Lungs also heal similarly to the liver.

Speed is basically a potent form of Ridalin not approved by the FDA.

Heroin is safer than a lot of the painkillers approved by the FDA but is extremely addictive.

Meth is bad.

Crack is bad.

Coke is bad.

Shrooms have no physical side effects that I know of.

Scientifically I know very little about ecstasy but the people I know that have done it seem to quit in less than a year after they first try it.



If you're addicted all of these drugs will negatively affect your life. In moderation these drugs wont affect you psychologically while you're sober and their physical damage is temporary. Drugs that I flat out said are bad are drugs that I haven't hear of ever being done more than once or twice and in moderation.
#71 Apr 02 2007 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
This survey was interesting from the start since it allowed for the slippery slope argument. Had it just been a marijuana legalization poll, then it's same old, same old.

But it brought in Ecstasy with the package.

So, meth labs run properly in the future won't hurt anyone, and explosions are caused all the time by careless homeowners who ***** up tinkering with their furnaces...and meth if only done recreationally is fine once it's legalized.

Of course it would stop at ecstasy and marijuana. No real risk that meth would ever be pushed for by an organized lobby. Well, not a norml one anyways.
#72 Apr 02 2007 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
***
3,053 posts
Kachi, being in the heath field, just says that you have to give the rote response against all drug use without ever admitting that, not everyone who ever partakes in mood altering substances will become addicted.

Such an attitude makes it hard for people who are in chronic pain get the help they need to control the level of pain they're in. Given a choice between taking Darvocet or some form of Cannabis, I would jump at the chance to stop having to worry about the chance of Dying because the Darvocet only gave me one hour of sight pain relief. In fact while Darvocet barely touches the amount of pain I am in daily, my doctors have to worry about the FDA, coming down on them if they give me something stronger.

There been studies that show that the chances of someone with chronic pain becoming addicted is less then .01%. There is a big difference between being dependant on a drug to live and addiction. I know a lot of addicts, who can't go near the drug of their choice, but are dependant on prescription drugs for their illness(es). I'm lucky to never feeling the need to use any drug just to enjoy life, so don't have those issues they face. I rather not have to take any drugs, prescription, over the counter or illegal, if I could. It wasn't easy to accept that the only way one can begin to live anything close to normal life, is by taking several drugs, that have dangerous side effects if one isn't careful to taper off, under a doctors care.

Most people who OD on prescription drugs do so because the pain medicine wears off before they can safely take it again. I always try to make sure to wait until 6 hours after I took Darvocet, for another dose and never mix wit with some of the other medicines I normally take for my health.

Sorry, to be on my high horse about this, but I lost a good friend today and am still waiting to find out how she died. Jenny was always getting folks to laugh and her laughter could be heard all though the building. If she wasn't talking about Jesus, she was talking about having Sex. I don't think she ever found a man able to keep her satisfied, so we knew all about her toys. Yet, behind the smiles and laughter, she was dealing with more then one chronic illness and the last time any of us talked to her, she told us she felt so tire, like she was dying. I was willing to put up with her religion, and now morn the only person I could talk about my toys with at the center. Jenny and I never did bring them in for a talk on how to use toys safely, like we often threaten the staff, whenever safe sex was brought up. (I did bring in my flail as part of my halloween costume one year though. Can't remember if I wore the brass collar though.)

Edited, Apr 2nd 2007 2:55pm by ElneClare
____________________________
In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair! -ElneClare

This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
#73 Apr 02 2007 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
Lefian wrote:
Scientifically I know very little about ecstasy but the people I know that have done it seem to quit in less than a year after they first try it.


Ecstasy is not physically addictive in any way. The only addiction you can get is mental, but if you get addicted to that, you'd get addicted to pretty much anything.

You do have one chance in a million to die though, because sometimes it's cut with rat poison. or you can forget to drink, and get dehydrated, or you can drink far too much, and your brain gets flooded. But for both of these outcome to happen, you have to be quite clueless. one bottle of water and you're fine.

The other thing is that's it's almost always cut. Sometimes with speed, in which case it sucks, and sometimes with other drugs. That's why some people hallucinate under E, while others don't. I once had a pill where little video screens would appear and play mundane scenes from my past. Like little video clips. It was great!

The one thing that differs ecstacy from the other drugs, though, is that the first ecstacy is walys the best. All the others never come close to that first one. That's why some people take 10, to try to recreate that first time...

____________________________
My politics blog and stuff - Refractory
#74 Apr 02 2007 at 2:31 PM Rating: Default
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
Alcohol damages the liver. As long as the liver is not badly damaged it can repair it self rather quickly. This is a fact. Therefore moderate alcohol use has not permanent damage to your body.


Again: my beef with alcohol has relatively little to do with the harmful effects it has on the user. That said, your logic is that because damage to the liver is repaired rather quickly, moderate alcohol use has does no permanent damage to your body. That would be true if your body was that of a giant liver. Let's assume though, that the only damage that occurs is to the liver. Your liver is not like a tempurpedic mattress. To return it to the way it was it requires nutrients from the body... nutrients that are needed for other functions of the body. This can reduce immunity, overall organ function, hell, I couldn't even begin to go into all the minor negative impacts, but again, those really aren't a big deal. Further, regular mild alcohol consumption has been linked to brain cell deterioration, much like marijuana.

My concern is not with "responsible" alcohol consumers. My concern is the exponentially poorer decisions one makes as alcohol consumption rises. It's easy to say you would never drink and drive when you're sober, but when you're drunk off your ***, who's to say? You may know your limit when you're sober, and you may still know it after a few drinks, or you might say, eh, couple more won't hurt, and before you know it, you're fighting a guy who accidentally stepped on your shoe. Point being, the more you drink, the less likely you are to exercise the judgement that it's time to stop, and the more likely you are to make decisions that will hurt yourself or others, be it physically or emotionally. Now, if that doesn't sound like you, and you can say with certainty that you've never made a decision you regretted because of alcohol, and you never will, I say drink up. I might even have a couple with you, but probably not.


Quote:
The only physical damage ever associated with marijuana smoking is the general harm traditionally associated with smoking anything. Again the definition of someone that smokes marijuana in moderation is not someone that is going to cause a great deal of damage to their lungs. Lungs also heal similarly to the liver.


Again, as above, there is evidence that continued marijuana use causes the deterioration of brain cells. As you pointed out, there is the additional harm to the lungs; however, you may be overestimating the healing ability of the lungs. Yes, the lungs can heal (though like the liver, they use the body's other resources to do it), but I think perhaps you overestimate how effectively they do so. Even a chronic smoker's lungs can eventually become like new, but it takes many years. Even if you're smoking a blunt every three days, your lungs aren't going to be able to fully recover between blunts. You are still increasing your risk of lung cancer, and yes, people who have never smoked anything but the casual marijuana have died from lung cancer.

Quote:
Speed is basically a potent form of Ridalin not approved by the FDA.


This is true. Ritalin is a form of speed, but it is absolutely nothing like using speed as a recreational drug. The dosages prescribed by doctors (of ritalin) are dwarfed by the potency used by recreational drug users. Furthermore, ritalin is ingested, not snorted or injected into the bloodstream, which further dilutes its effects (when used as intended anyway), and finally, in a correct diagnosis of ADD, the drug acts differently than it would in a person without ADD. ADD is caused by a chemical inbalance in the brain, which can be corrected by a proper dosage of ritalin and improve brain functioning. It's commonly prescribed for children who have difficulty paying attention in school; however, it has been documented to cause depression as a side effect, possibly as a result from "coming down" off of the drug.

Quote:
Heroin is safer than a lot of the painkillers approved by the FDA but is extremely addictive.


I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Heroin is a relatively harmless drug to the user aside from being incredibly addictive. The danger is in overdosing, especially as tolerance is aquired rapidly. Another problem is that the person's life can spiral quickly out of control as they become dependent on the drug instantly and often their entire life becomes centered around their next fix, until they die either of overdose or withdrawal.

Quote:
Meth is bad. Crack is bad. Coke is bad.


At the risk of sounding like a smartass hypocrate, drugs are not bad; abusing them is bad. This was a theme commonly discussed in my classes. Naturally on premise, I agree, though I would add to the list :p

Quote:
Shrooms have no physical side effects that I know of.


I admittedly know very little about shrooms. They aren't commonly used in this area and my impression of them is that they are rapidly declining in popularity and availability, but that's based only on my lack of ever coming across them or hearing about their recent use.

Quote:
Scientifically I know very little about ecstasy but the people I know that have done it seem to quit in less than a year after they first try it.


It's not that bad (relatively speaking). I really don't know much about it either because it's not especially problematic in this area, and, as I once heard it put, mostly popular with rich white kids. It is a mind-altering substance though, and can cause you to do things you normally wouldn't do. Personally I'd be more concerned about increased STD transmission and unwanted pregnancies during X parties (it's a social drug and commonly causes people to be more "open" with one another than they normally would be). In terms of harming your health directly, it's probably the last recreational drug to worry about, but again, it is the mind altering effects that truly has the potential to harm lives.

Anyway, -you- can check for -yourself-. I don't just pull this stuff out of my ***. Believe it or not, I kept it in my head.

Quote:
and meth if only done recreationally is fine once it's legalized.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but... why is meth fine? Granted if it were legalized it would be LESS harmful because it could be created without a lot of the poisonous chemicals that find their way into street meth because of the creation process, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it'd be "fine".

Quote:
Kachi, being in the heath field, just says that you have to give the rote response against all drug use without ever admitting that, not everyone who ever partakes in mood altering substances will become addicted.


So you're suggesting that because I'm in the health field, I'm automatically biased against drugs even if they don't negatively impact your health? I have thoroughly examined all popular recreational drugs, and have even openly admitted many times that I would prefer the legalization of marijuana. I never said that all drugs were addictive. Marijuana, for example, is not physiologically addictive. Neither is X. I guess that disproves your theory.

Maybe you just need to actually read my posts or something. Your entire post is irrelevant to any of the points I've made.
#75 Apr 03 2007 at 2:51 AM Rating: Decent
Kachi, I'll try to put it nicely for you:

Your "argument" boils down to the fact that irresponsible use of drugs is harmful to the body.

If we wanted to read a statement of the bleeding obvious, we would've used Google.

This is why no one gives a Shit.

That, and you're a bit of a twunt.
____________________________
My politics blog and stuff - Refractory
#76 Apr 03 2007 at 3:52 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,453 posts
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
And I could say someones making a trade of their health by sitting on their *** and playing video games instead of excercising.


Resting is a part of a healthy lifestyle. Video games are a harmless means of entertainment. It's not really a good comparison. Some things are good for you in moderation... poison is not one of them.



Like chemo?
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 261 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (261)