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Students sue Turnitin.comFollow

#1 Mar 29 2007 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Turnitin.com is a teacher's subscription service where educators can submit their students' papers against a database of other papers and check to see if it's been lifted from some other source (purchased, plagiarized, etc). Apparently, when you submit the paper, Turnitin.com archives the paper to add to its database.
Washington Post wrote:
Two McLean High School students have launched a court challenge against a California company hired by their school to catch cheaters, claiming the anti-plagiarism service violates copyright laws.

The lawsuit, filed this week in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, seeks $900,000 in damages from the for-profit service known as Turnitin. The service seeks to root out cheaters by comparing student term papers and essays against a database of more than 22 million student papers as well as online sources and electronic archives of journals. In the process, the student papers are added to the database.
[...]
"All of these kids are essentially straight-A students, and they have no interest in plagiarizing," said Robert A. Vanderhye, a McLean attorney representing the students pro bono. "The problem with [Turnitin] is the archiving of the documents. They are violating a right these students have to be in control of their own property."
I'm interested to see if this shakes out into anything. Teachers, of course, have a vested interest in making sure that students submit their own legitimate work especially when the internet makes cheating so much easier. Turnitin (and other services) are only as good as their database for matching documents. Without a strong database, there's little reason for school districts to pay to use the service but, then again, they don't have anything much better to combat cheating. I wonder if districts would be willing (and legally able) to make a waiver of copyright a de facto part of attending the school, at least as far as this instance is concerned. And whether or not it would be the "right" thing to do.

Edited to correct title

Edited, Mar 29th 2007 12:10pm by Jophiel
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#2 Mar 29 2007 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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Joph!

I'm calling you out! That entire post is a C'n'P job!
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#3 Mar 29 2007 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I remember this coming up when the service started. A lot of us were grumbling about our work being used by a company to make money without our permission. Then we signed the waivers and went on with life. I still don't like it, but not enough to spend time on it. Good for them though.

Nexa
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#4 Mar 29 2007 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
maybe if teachers didn't assign the same term papers year after year there wouldn't be any other papers to C&P with. All my college professors made sure year after year that they would change parts of the midterm & final exam essays that we would need to write making it impossible (or next to) to copy someone else from a previous year. That of course doesn't take in account that the students can still copy bits and phrases from books and articles.


If a teacher can't spot his/her students own work she/he isn't spending enough time paying attention to the essays they have been handing in. People write with a select style. I can pick out Joph's, Bodh's, and Smash's writing without really looking at their names. I mean if a "D" student turns in an "A+" paper I'd probably take a second look at it and check his references.
#5 Mar 29 2007 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oil wrote:

If a teacher can't spot his/her students own work she/he isn't spending enough time paying attention to the essays they have been handing in. People write with a select style. I can pick out Joph's, Bodh's, and Smash's writing without really looking at their names. I mean if a "D" student turns in an "A+" paper I'd probably take a second look at it and check his references.


The plaigerism they're targetting is far beyond the scope of one teacher's students. Students pay others to write their papers, and those that are selling are selling to many students. It's *their* writing style/pattern that is spotted by turnitin more than a student in a class who is allowing others in the same class to copy their paper.

Nexa
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#6 Mar 29 2007 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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The university I work at uses turnitin.com, even for the research papers (the review of lit) that will eventually guide students into their field study if they pursue their doctorate. We actually did have a case of plagiarizing last semester and had to remove the student from the program.

The thing about turnitin.com is that it doesn't matter if you change up the assignments or whatnot... if you plagiarize, it will find out. It checks the submission across every other item in the database for phrases, sentences and paragraphs that look plagiarized and comes out with a % number. Even if you were to take a paragraph and change a few words and re-order the sentences it would still pick it up as a plagiarization.

The site is mainly for college level work and professors don't generally become very familiar with the writing style of their students, unless it's a pretty small college.

I do not use the site myself (yet, but I will) so I don't know how available it makes the work that it collects. I can understand if I didn't want my thesis plastered all over the internet, particularly if it were some compelling stuff, and then it became accessible to everyone with internet access. I might have wanted to keep it on the downlow.

Interesting points.
#7 Mar 29 2007 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jon Carroll had a column about this a week ago. Yesterday he quoted some of the mail he got in response. Pretty funny stuff, I thought (bolding mine):

Quote:
I also got notes from teachers who deal with plagiarism every day in the classroom. Steven Rubio outlines an interesting dilemma: "The only plagiarists I catch are the ones who are bad at it. The best plagiarists know how to pull it off so that I never even get suspicious. The worst plagiarists, the ones who panic after a bad grade on their first paper and submit a subsequent paper of such high quality that Jon Carroll could have written it, are caught more often than not. I end up punishing students for being bad at cheating. What makes this especially sad is that the grades these students ultimately receive for the course probably reflect their real-world abilities in the world of the job market: If you are good enough at getting others to do your work that you don't get caught, you will be rewarded."

Teacher Bernice Goldmark had another experience: "When I told some freshmen college students who were at a University in the East about this, they said they knew how to beat the system. All ears, I asked how. The answer was that they didn't use source material from the Internet, but, rather, went to the library and copied from books! Evidently not all books are available online."
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#8 Mar 29 2007 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Nexa wrote:
Oil wrote:

If a teacher can't spot his/her students own work she/he isn't spending enough time paying attention to the essays they have been handing in. People write with a select style. I can pick out Joph's, Bodh's, and Smash's writing without really looking at their names. I mean if a "D" student turns in an "A+" paper I'd probably take a second look at it and check his references.


Students pay others to write their papers, and those that are selling are selling to many students.



I did homework for people in highschool for money. Paid for a couple concerts and bought me lunch from the cafeteria most days. I had one jock who wanted me to write a paper for him for his 'gym class'. They had to write a paper on a sport detailing its history, rules, etc. Fairly simple but the guy was by no means a rhodes scholar.

So I wrote a paper entailing his love of interpretative dance, with an underscore of **** erotic and sexually bi-curious statements. He obviously didn't read it and it wasn't until he got the graded paper back with a note sending him to the guidance councillor that he read it.

I didn't get my money, and I actually had to run for my life at one point, but it was the most satisfactory cheating that I have ever done!

Edited, Mar 29th 2007 3:41pm by bodhisattva
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#9 Mar 29 2007 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
So I wrote a paper entailing his love of interpretative dance, with an underscore of **** erotic and sexually bi-curious statements.


As an added bonus you had a non-threatening outlet for your early yearnings.

#10 Mar 29 2007 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the students have a case. If the company is making money using material generated by the students, the students are entitled to charge the company whatever they want through a written agreement or their material must be removed from the site. Try to copy a book and put it on a website, bet you'll get sued.
#11 Mar 29 2007 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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bodhisattva wrote:

I didn't get my money, and I actually had to run for my life at one point, but it was the most satisfactory cheating that I have ever done!
Didn't we hear this one already, or was the the one with the girl and stuff?
#12 Mar 29 2007 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
bet you'll get sued.


OK, how much you wanna bet?

#13 Mar 29 2007 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oil wrote:
If a teacher can't spot his/her students own work she/he isn't spending enough time paying attention to the essays they have been handing in.
As Kachi points out, many teachers (especially at the college level) don't get all that well acquainted with their students' writing styles. In my old History of Western Civ class, for example, we submitted only two lengthy papers for the semester. We had some mini-essay style questions on the tests (one page or so) but you can't really compare a students' hurried recollection about the major points in the spread of Islam to a ten page (hopefully polished) research paper.

For the record, I got high 90's on all four of my papers in that class (parts I & II) and had a wistful moment of thinking it was a waste to just throw them out. But I don't need some lazy schmuck stealing my research on the Baptism of Poland Smiley: grin
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#14 Mar 29 2007 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
you beat me to it.


i think this is GREAT. the "turnitin" was a good concept, but it has been abused as with most "thing" of power. in the long run anything that is like that will get abused and it has been for the past few years.

my wife just had to deal with that company last year. i helped her write a paper that had to be submitted to that god awful service. it came back as 80% plagerized... sorry, but i made 90% of it up off of the top of my head. just pacing back and forth in our living room as i reworded what my wife had put pen to paper on.

so that "turnitin" is just wrong, bad, and needs to be revamped or removed as a service used by schools in general.
#15 Mar 29 2007 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
Seems pretty sneaky to me. With this many people in the world, isn't there a chance no matter what you say on a paper (as this Company collects more and more papers), some of it's going to come back as plagerized?

After all, everything worth saying has already been said. Or something like that. Unless you've never read a book or a magazine or you lived in a damn bubble, chances are, you're going to copy someone, sometime.
#16 Mar 29 2007 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd imagine that, especially at a high school level, everything there is to say about the Great Pyramid has been said. A bajillion times. Still, if the site allows the instructor to review the alleged "source material", they could probably make a decent judgement call on whether or not it's nominally original work.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Mar 29 2007 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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In the process, the student papers are added to the database.


Yeah, absolutely not. Amazing this was never an issue prior to this. If they want to purchase date to check work product against, that's fine. Appropriating everything by default is a real problem.
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#18 Mar 29 2007 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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My college uses this website, and I actually have to turn in a paper to it in a couple weeks. They require any student who's going into a course where they'll have to write a research paper to sign a consent form. If you don't sign the form, you can't take the course.

The form specifically uses my college's name though, so I don't know if it's something required by turnitin.com or just by the college.

I think it's a pretty bad concept though for reasons already stated. I don't really have a problem with them saving my paper, but eventually everything I want to say is going to have been said on someone elses paper. I'd be royally pissed if I spent weeks writing a paper only to find something just like it had already been written and I was being accused of copying it.

Edited, Mar 29th 2007 5:44pm by TravestyOfAsura
#19 Mar 29 2007 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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My college uses this website, and I actually have to turn in a paper to it in a couple weeks. They require any student who's going into a course where they'll have to write a research paper to sign a consent form. If you don't sign the form, you can't take the course.


Time for a few class action lawsuits against schools then, I guess.

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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#20 Mar 29 2007 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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smasharoo wrote:
My college uses this website, and I actually have to turn in a paper to it in a couple weeks. They require any student who's going into a course where they'll have to write a research paper to sign a consent form. If you don't sign the form, you can't take the course.

Time for a few class action lawsuits against schools then, I guess.


Sue, damn it! Children of lawyers are going hungry because you are not using them! Get cracking and bring down this burgeoning bureaucratic monstrosity before it tars and feathers another young innocent!
Smiley: motz
#21 Mar 29 2007 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
Quick! Rummage through your parents homework and get a "pre-ban" stolen essay!
#22 Mar 29 2007 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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It does beg the question though... 900 grand for a few high school essays? These kids must think they write some hot ****.
#23 Mar 30 2007 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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On another forum, a high school teacher wrote about how Turnitin works. I thought it was interesting.
A high school teacher wrote:
When Turnitin finds a match to an online source, it will show me, side by side, the text the student submitted along with the archived version of the online source, with the matching words and sections highlighted. I get a percentage score for each source (how much of the student's paper matches text in that source), and an overall percentage score (how much of the student's paper matches other sources). It's not perfect, but it's a fairly sophisticated algorithm. It's not without its flaws. It doesn't seem to keep up too well with Wikipedia, the number one source of student info these days, for better or for worse. Still, so many other pages crib from Wikipedia now, it usually catches it from another site.

In addition to telling me if the student deliberately plagiarized, it lets me know if they inadvertantly plagiarized or incorrectly cited (Quotes without citations, cited quotes that should have been unquoted paraphrases due to rewording by the paper's author, etc.) Learning how to make proper fair use of others' material is also an important set of skills the students need to learn, and Turnitin helps make easy.

As far as its submitted paper archive, if Turnitin finds a matching source in there, it tells me what school the paper was submitted to, and when. If I try to click on those source links to compare the actual text side by side, I get instead a message informing me that I need to contact the copyright holder to get a copy of it for myself.

If it's a paper from my own school, I can look at it directly however. The first student to submit the text will receive a percentage-match score relative to other sources. The second student will get a score based on the other sources PLUS the first student's paper.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#24 Mar 30 2007 at 10:26 AM Rating: Default
Good to see students challenging this service. I know for a fact how rampant the problem is of students plagiarizing, and if suing a company like Turnitin leads to better checks and balances at catching the cheaters...I'm all for it!
#25 Mar 30 2007 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: confused
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#26 Mar 30 2007 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Smiley: confused


Me too.

Nexa
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― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
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