Slavery....good for African-Americans?Follow

My initial thoughts are that the African continent would not be the war- and famine-stricken place it is today without slavery and European diseases decimating the populations. Similar to what we did to the native American indians, except that we stayed here and did a better job of finishing them off.

Not that I want to undermine the incredible insight of the OP, but...

One thing about slavery:

The slaves that were brought to the US and Europe were the best of what Africa had to offer. They were the strongest, the fittest, the most intelligent. Those that made it through the gruelling ordeal were real survivors.

Imagine if for 100 years, Europe (or the US) had had it's strongest, healthiest, fittest citizens taken away and enslaved. What do you think the people left would've made of the place?

So, we took their best people, wasted them away, colonised the place, stole its ressources, imported the worse of what we had to offer, and divided to conquer.

When we finally left the frigging place, we drew up the worse borders imaginable, stuck tribes and peoples that didn't speak the same language and hated each together in the same country. Finally, in the name of stability, we placed corrupt, violent dictators, and showered them with funds so they could enrich their personal bank accounts in Switzerland and buy shiny new helicopters.

Rwanda was the most fierce exemple of what these fake borders did: Put the minority in power, oppress the majority, throw a bunch of modern weaponry, and watch the result.

So...

Did slavery do anything good for the descendents of slaves?

I wouldn't put my money on it.

We don't need to imagine. France and England fought for 100 Years and they're a prime example of what happens when you take away the strongest, healthiest and fittest citizens. You're left with cowards and bad teeth.

Or would the social dynamic between whites and blacks in the US be different had the blacks not been forced over here through slavery? And, more importantly, could this have somehow spared us all from having to hear gangsta rap?

Edited, Mar 21st 2007 8:39am by CrescentFresh

Indeed.

As to the OP: hard to say. Africa in the 1600s or so was also a place where tribes felt okay about selling captives into slavery in the first place. The slave trade would not have gotten far without complicit suppliers. /shrug

I'm assuming you're using that in the the loosest form possible since many of them got these jobs after arriving in the US and were left with no other option (unless you include reducing themselves to criminals). And those that got the jobs before leaving for the US, were told lies as to how great the opportunities were and were not told of the perils that came with it. Other than that, I agree completely with what you said in the rest of your post.

As has been loosely touched on already, the vast majority of the descendents simply wouldn't have been born at all. Different sperm would have impregnated different eggs and those that were still, by chance, the same genetic person, would have been brought up in an entirely different environment.

But for the sake of your argument, it's hard to say outside of wild speculation. Myself and very possibly everyone participating in the discussion don't know enough about African history, social trends, land and climate, etc. to really even make an "educated" guess. Most of them are certainly better off in today's American than today's Africa; however, I don't think it's quite a leap of logic to guess that Africa would be a vastly different, stronger set of nations had it not been for slavery.

I think I saw someone mention 12 million Africans were shipped away... does anyone know roughly how many Africans inhabited the continent around that time?

I'm sure there's enough information worth deliberating on in this subject that you could immerse yourself in for a lifetime and still not be sure of the answer.

Unregulated capitalism and institutionalised slavery are quite different from the point of view of a society and an ethnic group.

Sure, there are exceptions on both sides, and we can't quantify exactly how much one suffers.

At the end of the day, the OP's question is a stupid one.

First, we can't possibly know what would've happened if it hadn't been for slavery.

Second, it seemed to me that the question was asked in a way that suggests that slavery somehow was not all that bad since their descendents today are "better off" than people in Africa. A statement which is stupid in so many ways it's not really worth discussing.

My

Does Hollywood know you are holding back on these really great movie ideas?

There, that's better.

I worked at a McD's for a stint in college. I walked away feeling good enough about most of it but, having seen those McRibs in the making, I can't touch the things.

A Coworker put one in a file storage box by mistake once, stored it, we reopen it 2 years and 27 days later and see the McRib box staring up at us. Open the box and the thing's pristine. Like brand new. I was amazed it wasn't still warm.

I blame the transluscent and slightly luminescent orange goo they cook them in.