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#1 Mar 20 2007 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
I stumbled upon this article a few days ago. Now, I didn't pay all that much attention to it at the time, since it looks slightly biased, but some of the exemples in there are quite shocking.

And then I remembered that thread about Europe where gbaji kept banging on about our "loss of freedoms".

So, I'm curious as to how you'd justify these losses of freedoms. Anythign sinister? Anything they're trying to hide? Or is it all, once again, a liberal conspiracy?

A few snipets:

Quote:
After the Bureau of Labor Statistics uncovered discouraging data about factory closings in the U.S., the administration announced it would stop publishing information about factory closings.


Quote:
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) recently announced plans to close several libraries which were used by researchers and scientists. The agency called its decision a cost-cutting measure, but a 2004 report showed that the facilities actually brought the EPA a $7.5 million surplus annually.


Quote:
In 2002, Bush officials intervened to derail the publication of an EPA report on mercury and children's health, which contradicted the administration's position on lowering regulations on certain power plants. The report was eventually leaked by a "frustrated EPA official."

Also in 2003, the EPA withheld for months key findings from an air pollution report that undercut the White House's "Clear Skies" initiative. Leaked copies were reported in the Washington Post.


Quote:
For more than a year, the Interior Department refused to release a 2005 study showing a government subsidy for oil companies was not effective.


Quote:
In 2006, as a number of groups sought records of visits by disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff and his associates to the White House, the administration quietly made an agreement with the Secret Service, making sure that White House visitor records would no longer be subject to Freedom of Information Act requests


Freedom isn't free, indeed.

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#2 Mar 20 2007 at 4:07 AM Rating: Decent
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The EPA? You mean the same group that fed us politically motivated propaganda to support their agendas?

The mere fact that articles that once pertained to the Secret Service and being kept secret strikes me as ironic. That is just me though.
#3 Mar 20 2007 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
The EPA? You mean the same group that fed us politically motivated propaganda to support their agendas?


Is propaganda ever anything else that politically motivated?

borntolandhard wrote:
That is just me though.


Indeed, and no one gives a fUck.

Go have a cigarette.

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#4 Mar 20 2007 at 5:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
the same group that fed us politically motivated propaganda to support their agendas?
I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. I'm pretty sure that every government agency from the EPA to the Dept. of Commerce to Streets & Sanitation has an "agenda". Otherwise, we wouldn't have much use for the agency.

However, I'm not sure what the "politically motivated propaganda" bit is about. Was it lies about the environment which helped corporate concerns allied to the administration? Was it lies about the environment calling a situation worse than it actually was? "Politically motivated propaganda" is pretty nebulous.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5 Mar 20 2007 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
the same group that fed us politically motivated propaganda to support their agendas?
I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean.


This coming from a poster who spouts nothing but partisan political propaganda!!!


Simplified and baseless attacks on credibility are a weak but effective rhetorical tool. Since one has to do little to substantiate the claim and can pretty much throw off any argument proving credibility by using further attacks of a baseless nature!
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#6 Mar 20 2007 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
Joph,

Is your avatar a picture of a spaceman with ski goggles, in a sheep skin, getting his **** sucked by a space-monkey while his pet spacedog is watching?

Or should I just take the rest of the day off?

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#7 Mar 20 2007 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elderon & I are a two-man "creepy monkey avatar theme".
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Mar 20 2007 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Elderon & I are a two-man "creepy monkey avatar theme".


Oh well, there goes my leaving early...

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#9 Mar 20 2007 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elderon & I are a two-man "creepy monkey avatar theme".


Thurded
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#10 Mar 20 2007 at 6:04 AM Rating: Decent
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It may be hormones, but (understanding where that avatar actually does come from) that avatar makes me all sorts of sad for the poor baby monkey.

#11 Mar 20 2007 at 6:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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If it makes you feel better, that monkey lived a rich, long monkey life and has been cold in ground for many long monkey-years now. His concerns over his terry cloth mother are long over.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#12 Mar 20 2007 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
If it makes you feel better, that monkey lived a rich, long monkey life and has been cold in ground for many long monkey-years now. His concerns over his terry cloth mother are long over.


To bring you back down.

They buried him with the the mother that didnt have terry cloth.
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#13 Mar 20 2007 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
If it makes you feel better, that monkey lived a rich, long monkey life and has been cold in ground for many long monkey-years now. His concerns over his terry cloth mother are long over.


I'm more concerned with the fact that he was deprived of his real mother for the study.

#14 Mar 20 2007 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
bodhisattva wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Elderon & I are a two-man "creepy monkey avatar theme".


Thurded


Monkey see, monkey do.

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#15 Mar 20 2007 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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If nothing else, Harlowe taught me that I could replace Joph Jr's mother with a barrel and a bath towel. A lesson which served me well when he was younger.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#16 Mar 20 2007 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
If nothing else, Harlowe taught me that I could replace Joph Jr's mother with a barrel and a bath towel.
Interesting.

I just went the traditional route of one night stands and expensive hookers.

On a related note, what did you do to help Joph Jr cope?
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#17 Mar 20 2007 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Red, I think your creepy monkey avatar is da creepiest.

Not even a faint glimmer of awareness or intelligence lies in those beady lil eyes....
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"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.

#18 Mar 20 2007 at 12:05 PM Rating: Default
interesting...
#19 Mar 20 2007 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
paulsol the Flatulent wrote:
Red, I think your creepy monkey avatar is da creepiest.


Glad you like it.

I was afraid people would find insulting to monkeys...
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#20 Mar 20 2007 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:
paulsol the Flatulent wrote:
Red, I think your creepy monkey avatar is da creepiest.


Glad you like it.

I was afraid people would find insulting to monkeys...
Big Ups to whoever photoshopped out the child ***** from that avatard
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#21 Mar 20 2007 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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Ambrya wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
If it makes you feel better, that monkey lived a rich, long monkey life and has been cold in ground for many long monkey-years now. His concerns over his terry cloth mother are long over.


I'm more concerned with the fact that he was deprived of his real mother for the study.

You make me sick.

#22 Mar 21 2007 at 9:42 AM Rating: Default
its true. when the addministraition didnt like what the federal report on terrorism said, they simply stoped producing it.

the republican machine is a well oiled, precision media master. if they cant controll it, they squash it if they can or bury it sooo deep no one will ever see it, or baring all of the above, discredit it by rasing doubt about its accuracy, ir agenda of somneone involved with it.

NO ONE does it better. they cover every angle.

like any big bussiness should. and thats the whole of it. the republican machine was created to support big bussiness. it was created by big bussiness, run by big bussiness for the sole benifit of big bussiness. i think mabe that is starting to sink in too with enough republicans finally. no longer is it "cool" to be a young republican like it was during the hight of the spinn doctors.

a good example is this current hype with the fired federal prosecutors. what started out as an attack on our very constitution by slipping in a law with the patriot act allowing the addministraition to skip senate conformation, and then firing key prosecutors right when congress went into recess and appointing republican darlings to those position..........

.........has somehow been switiched to "why" they were fired instead of "how" they were replaced. the republican machine working hard for you. leaking the right memos and e-mails to the media casting a cloud over the "why" question, a few good talk show spots asking the "why" question, and now, every one hasd forgotten all about the "how" question that stripped them of checks and ballances in their own government and is totally focused on the "why".

just like a flock of ignorant sheep. the shiney box will tell us what is important. the shiney box will show us the way. baaaa baaaa baaaa

yes, they are manipulating the media like masters. just too bad not enough americans are paying attention. thats why we are in iraq. thats why we gave the oil industry a 14 billion dollar tax cut during the most profitable 6 years they have ever had in theri entire hostory.

baaaaa baaaaa baaaaa, the shiney box didnt tell us it was important. baaaa baaaaa......
#23 Mar 21 2007 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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At the risk of imposing on the wonderous "fake monkey mother" discussion (and the fact that I was mentioned by name), I'll respond.

Monsieur RedPhoenixxx wrote:

And then I remembered that thread about Europe where gbaji kept banging on about our "loss of freedoms".

So, I'm curious as to how you'd justify these losses of freedoms. Anythign sinister? Anything they're trying to hide? Or is it all, once again, a liberal conspiracy?


Red. You are aware that none of those things you listed actually represent "freedoms", right?

Why am I not surprised that you of all people on this forum don't actually know what freedom is?
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#24 Mar 22 2007 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
Red. You are aware that none of those things you listed actually represent "freedoms", right?


Freedom of information is not a freedom.

Gotcha.

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#25 Mar 22 2007 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Freedom of information is not a freedom.

Gotcha.


Apparently your childs freedom to not be subjected to mercury poisoning isn't a real freedom either....



edited to avoid criticism for not being able to spell

Edited, Mar 22nd 2007 4:48am by paulsol
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#26 Mar 22 2007 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:

Quote:
Freedom of information is not a freedom.
Gotcha.

Apparently your childs freedom to not be subjected to mercury poisoning isn't a real freedom either....

There is no freedom of information; this is the same misconception as the "right to know." The alleged "right to know" is not a right, but rather the opposite of a constitutionally protected right, which is the "right to privacy." This does not mean that corporations can hide behind the "right to privacy" to kill children with mercury. What it does means is that when the rights to life, liberty and/or safety of the public are threatened; those rights take precedence as they are more important than an individual corporation's right to privacy. The right to privacy is then surpessed in favor fo the public's right to life, liberty and/or safety. That is when, for example, a corporation is forced though regulation, or court order, to reveal any information that may impact that right to live and/or right to safety of the public. The word corporation could be replaced by an individual or the government. There is no right to know or right to information, this is a misperception of the application of the suppression of the right to privacy in favor of the right to life, liberty and/or safety of others. It takes a court's order or an act of the legislature often reviewed by the courts to surpess the right to privacy in favor of the life, liberty and/or safety of the public, and only after such is an individual forced to reveal otherwise private information.



Edited, Mar 22nd 2007 12:36pm by fhrugby
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