I think we touched on this before....Follow

He's definitely getting soft in his old age. If he doesn't start slapping people around soon, we'll think he's a doormat and that we can get away with anything. :D

Nexa

But there was a benefit at the time in the behavior modification when other methods had failed. I don't remember any exact episodes so I'm not going to try to get into a game of "Why didn't you do this?" but it's not as abstract as "I bet if I give 'em this oil, it'll do 'em some good."

But there was a benefit at the time in the behavior modification when other methods had failed. I don't remember any exact episodes so I'm not going to try to get into a game of "Why didn't you do this?" but it's not as abstract as "I bet if I give 'em this oil, it'll do 'em some good."

Of course it's not, but you'll stipulate it's pretty hard to find an unrelated parallel? I mean if you can think of one, I'm game.

Just so I understand this correctly, are you saying there was no other reasonable thing you could do to stop the behavior and that's why you hit him?

Sorry, I realize 'you hit him' is a sensational sounding thing in the current social climate, but I just can't bring myself to seriously write 'you swatted him on the bottom'.

Too gay?

I did spell 'on' correctly didn't I? I can never tell.

Again, I don't remember specific incidents well enough to want to play that game. I wouldn't be able to give honest answers and I don't see the point in me giving answers half dredged from my memory and half created from my imagination while I attempt to defend my actions.

Edited, Mar 15th 2007 11:15am by Jophiel

The latter moreso than the former but a combonation of both. If that makes sense.

In other words, something minor wouldn't warrant it regardless of how well he listened to correction but something more major may if he refused to change his behavior after other punishments/deterrents were tried.

This ignores stereotypical "hand in the fire" scenarios.

I miss having the time to sit down and really get into a debate like this.

Throwing my two cheap cents in, the only time I have swatted my child was when he was walking/running into physical danger and would not stop after being told/warned/yelled at to do so. Examples would be climbing the grandfather clock, climbing his dresser, trying to open the oven door when it was on, going for the electric sockets.

Of course when he was little we would make a big deal about pointing out these objects letting him know under no circumstances was he allowed near them. And he being my spawn, would run to the electric sockets at 2 yrs old and put his hand right over it with an evil grin if he was mad at me, little brat.

99.9% of the time, Ive found that with little ones redirecting their attention to something else works wonders, as does a warning and threat of time out for 3 yr olds+. Taking away toys after a warning of doing so works too. But the bottom line is, consistency is key. Whatever your discipline ends up being, be consistent. You dont need regular spankings as discipline. AGain, Ive only used it as a gentle swat, more to get their attention than to use as an effective discipline routine.

On the other side, what works for one kid does not work for all. It took me awhile to find out what works for my son. I can now look at him and put one finger up, even across an olympic size pool room and he will stop, knowing I mean business. Ive watched other parents try that and their kids just look away and continue on doing whatever it is they were doing. Could be lack of consistency on the parents end though.

ok back to my kids corner.

Edited, Mar 15th 2007 2:38pm by DSD

I spanked my oldest daughter (once, hard on the butt) when she slapped her mom. That was the only spanking she ever got. I asked her how it felt. "it hurts". "Good, then now you can begin to understand how that hurt your mom". Since she was 5, I didn't even try to get into the emotional ramifications of what she had done. In the last 5 years, she has never struck her mom or any of her friends, and she still remembers that one spanking.

I have washed both daughters' mouthes out with soap (at different times) for cursing. Did it to each one of them once, and we haven't had a problem since.

Other then those three instances, we have always resorted to groundings, time-outs, for other offenses.

Was it right or wrong? I don't know. But I do know this: they both learned their lessons after one punishment, and they are both doing well in school, have a number of friends, go out for extracurricular activities, and they love us. Basically, your normal kids.

Of course, now we have the teenage years coming up

I remember my mother once using an oar to smack our asses... and how somehow a 3rd of it just fell off after she was spanking my little brother.... ah good times.

I've seen situations like this go both ways. Mr. Ambrya has a story about a time as a teenager when he was, in his words, "being a real ******* to [his] mom." His dad basically grabbed him by the back of the neck and flung him down the hallway, and it never happened again. Looking back on it today, he says he completely deserved what he got, and he learned his lesson: his dad would not tolerate anyone treating his wife that way. He finds it amusing that he was being such a jerk and got such an efficient smack-down that he quickly learned never to do it again.

Then there was my family as a teenager (I was being raised by my aunt and uncle due to my mother's alcoholism.) They were big on emotional abuse that sometimes entered into physical abuse. "Discipline" was lectures that sometimes lasted 3 hours or more, usually in the kitchen, boxed in against the breakfast bar and unable to get away. I had to meet their eyes, I could not sign, or roll my eyes, or show any signs of derision. I had to be perfectly attentive. I was not allowed to argue back or state my case when I felt what was being said was unfair. If they said something that was particularly hurtful and I started tearing up, I would be accused of forcing myself to cry or feeling sorry for myself.

Sometimes, if something set them off suddenly, they would grab my arm and dig in with their nails, or squeeze my jaw until my teeth bit into my cheeks and lips. Sometimes, my face would be slapped. I never at any time fought back, and while I'm sure there were times I wasn't perfectly respectful, after almost 20 years of thinking upon it (my default position for many years was to blame myself for it all), I can honestly say--with no self-serving bias--that this behavior on their part was out of line and abusive, and completely over-the-top for the offenses given.

About the time I was 16, I realized I was having anxiety attacks when they got physically violent with me, even when it was just grabbing me. My heart would begin pounding, I'd get short of breath, I'd start feeling panicky, and the feeling would last sometimes for hours after the confrontation had ended. One evening, in a moment that was neutral and non-confrontational, I spoke to my aunt and in a very adult, calm, rational manner told her I would appreciate it if she and my uncle would stop touching me in that sort of violent manner, because I found it extremely upsetting. I thought that was the end of it, until a few weeks later.

Another "lecture" sprung up, I gave in to whatever they were insisting upon and tried to walk away to do whatever it was they wanted me to do, but they weren't done talking at me yet, so my aunt grabbed my arm. And I jerked my arm out of her grasp. So she grabbed me again, and I jerked away again and said, "Don't touch me, I asked you to stop doing that." Next thing I knew, she had my on the floor on my knees with one hand in my hair holding me down and the other hand in a fist, beating on my back. My uncle picked me up, tossed me over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes, and threw me into another room and shut me in. To this day, I don't know if he did it to humiliate me, or because he realized his wife had gone around the bend and needed to step in and break up the confrontation.

On the spectrum of physical abuse, my aunt and uncle's behavior was actually pretty mild--the emotional abuse, the insults and the things they did that just completely devastated my self-esteem for years to come left more scars. But they WERE abusive, and I work hard to resolve this in my mind and find some reconciliation, because I don't want to repeat that cycle of abuse with my own children.

If I thought for a second that a swift swat on the behind for the purpose of grabbing the attention of a kid that is completely out of control was in any way equivalent, you can bet I'd be on the "no swatting" bandwagon in a heartbeat. But having seen young children--who are not yet capable of channelling their anger and frustration verbally, or have not yet been taught to do so, and therefore manifest it physically--get so out of control that no amount of patience, talking, or attempts to divert them will work, sometimes you just need to do whatever will grab their attention quickly and let them know they have crossed the line of what is acceptable behavior. Like I said, it should be a last resort, not the default position. But every social animal has methods by while the dominant animal brings the younger and more submissive animals into line, usually some form of nipping or physical chastening, and young children tend to reason on a very animal, instinctual level, so it can be affective WITHOUT being abusive.

(sorry, Flea, I tried.)

My mother used to do equestrian events. When we were bad enough, she'd crack us with a riding crop.

True. I find that biting children really gets there attention. Of course, when I want to affirm my dominance, I find a good old fashioned dry humping is more effective.

Edited, Mar 15th 2007 1:20pm by Barkingturtle